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Thread: Fairy Tail Series IV Discussion

  1. #1521

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfDarkness View Post
    The salty-tears over the shipping is fucking hilarious.
    Care to share? I've been trying to look at some of those.

  2. #1522

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfDarkness View Post
    Maybe for you.

    Otherwise the series beginning was in-your-incompetent.
    lol are you really calling me incompetent? We basically agree that the show sucks, yet you're calling me incompetent because we disagree on whether the series was ever not shitty at one point in the very beginning? I actually don't get it.
    FMA 03> FMA Brotherhood

  3. #1523

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    Care to share? I've been trying to look at some of those.
    People were upset Natsu didnt turn into goku and marry her. They wanted that "NaLu" kiss and Mashima to his credit kept it open ended enough for shippers without it coming out of nowhere.
    Also that jerza was left on more of an open end.
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
    Spoiler:



  4. #1524

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    I did follow fairy tail from start to finish even before an anime was announced. I was there during the big 3's(one piece, naruto, bleach) reign and I was still there until last week when it all ended

    For me I cannot say Fairy Tail is a complete failure but clearly with it's market it is a successful manga
    It has great potential but really missed it's mark. The main problem with fairy tail is it's deus ex machina nakama powers, over fan service and a lot of underdeveloped characters. The best arc for me was the tournament arc overall that part has great story buildup and a great climax(before the dragon's arrive) after that arc it was complete utter mess

  5. #1525

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    Quote Originally Posted by badwolf1234 View Post
    I did follow fairy tail from start to finish even before an anime was announced. I was there during the big 3's(one piece, naruto, bleach) reign and I was still there until last week when it all ended

    For me I cannot say Fairy Tail is a complete failure but clearly with it's market it is a successful manga
    It has great potential but really missed it's mark. The main problem with fairy tail is it's deus ex machina nakama powers, over fan service and a lot of underdeveloped characters. The best arc for me was the tournament arc overall that part has great story buildup and a great climax(before the dragon's arrive) after that arc it was complete utter mess
    Hmmmm interesting most people dont like GMG for some reason and they prefer the 2nd half
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
    Spoiler:



  6. #1526

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    Hmmmm interesting most people dont like GMG for some reason and they prefer the 2nd half
    the GMG is the only arc in the series that makes the FT a complete underdog that somehow manage to progress without any nakama bullsh*t for me

  7. #1527

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    I just realized Levy is having the child of the man that stapled her unconscious in a tree.

  8. #1528
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    So the ending is like the ending of most of the arcs - status quo. The more things progress the more they stay the same.

    At least it's wrapped up, with no skipped parts and unfinished scenes like in Bleach.

    And just to add some salt, at least Mashima allowed women to have big fights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  9. #1529

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    And just to add some salt, at least Mashima allowed women to have big fights.
    One of the few positive things about it.

    Then the titties came...oh did the titties come.


    Quote Originally Posted by KzTxL7 View Post
    I wasn't distracted by Lucy being half naked.

    You won this week Fairy Tail.

  10. #1530
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    There is no good without the bad with Mashima.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  11. #1531

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    So the ending is like the ending of most of the arcs - status quo. The more things progress the more they stay the same.

    At least it's wrapped up, with no skipped parts and unfinished scenes like in Bleach.

    And just to add some salt, at least Mashima allowed women to have big fights.
    I was gonna suggest a trade-off of more fanservice with more fights wpuld be fine and then I thought Well we already know how much fanservice toei adds, god imagine if they animated fairy tail or even a more risque one piece.
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
    Spoiler:



  12. #1532

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    All I can say is that Fairy Tail made me REALLY fucking appreciate just how good the good stuff in Naruto actually is.


    Quote Originally Posted by KzTxL7 View Post
    I wasn't distracted by Lucy being half naked.

    You won this week Fairy Tail.

  13. #1533

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    Iam rid of a bad habit, yippee!
    UnrevealedVegapunk/Ryokugyu/Loki/Rocks/Im-san/C.Gaban
    IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley
    UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma/Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Roger/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/last ancient weapon/the D.clan
    DFSpider/Wind/Metal/Wood/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop

  14. #1534

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    Quote Originally Posted by badwolf1234 View Post
    the GMG is the only arc in the series that makes the FT a complete underdog that somehow manage to progress without any nakama bullsh*t for me
    That Sting vs. Fairy Tail scene that won them the tournament was nothing but nakama bullshit though.

  15. #1535

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinigamiKing View Post
    lol are you really calling me incompetent? We basically agree that the show sucks, yet you're calling me incompetent because we disagree on whether the series was ever not shitty at one point in the very beginning? I actually don't get it.
    I love how you highlight a part that literally starts off with "otherwise the series beginning", and somehow take that as me insulting you.

    Ah the irony.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Zar View Post
    Then what is this? By giving an example you are comparing it to another series.
    I don't think so? I mean I was using them as an example of the things their opening nailed compare to the lackluster opening of FT.

    Either way which ever you want to put it; it still doesn't change the fact that FT's opening was neither emotional, hooking, intriguing, or anything that really set it apart.

    Then tell me, what are those basic elements? Exactly how did it fail in it's execution? Did Mashima fail to set up a proper vector for the reader to follow? Did he place the elements wrong, ignore the hierarchy of importance, or did he fail at the level of the multi-frame, did he misuse the gutters? Or do you mean in terms of narrative?
    I am talking from pretty much all angles. From the way the art is drawn, to the actual-use of the art in terms of what it really communicates, to the panel layout/flow to how generic, and standard the designs are, to how forgettable the actual dialogues are, to how lackluster the "fantasy" setting is, to how the tone constantly goes back, and forth between comedy, and serious (one moment even has an implication of RAPE/kidnapping of girls that are lured in, yet seconds later, the series goes back to comedy then serious again), and how NOTHING is given proper time to be developed, or have any real impact. This is the perfect example of an power-point presentation rather than an opening to a long-running fantasy series.

    There is no real flow. Things.....are just happening, and being thrown at the screen. Who the fuck is Natsu? Who the fuck is Happy? Who the fuck is Lucy? Who the fuck is Fairy tail? Why the fuck should the readers care? Nobody knows because the opening sure as hell doesn't even leave the room for events to be digested, and understood by the readers. And the biggest thing is that it still fails to say something substantial about the characters/plot/setting.


    You can literally ignore that chapter, and not lose anything of substance (not that this series has any to begin with).

    Erm... setting up the magic council, guilds and quests IS world building, not random exposition.
    I'm not talking about what it says. Rather HOW its saying it.

    This stuff might be important, but it's thrown at you in the most laziest form. At this point, readers have literal zero fucks to give/care about the world-building.

    Good world-building is about the flow, and how the readers slowly by slowly learn more about the world. FT on the other hand just tries to throw exposition, and fails.

    Or you're just overly negative. Different strokes for different people.
    Whether you enjoy it, or like it is your thing.

    But the actual problems in writing that fails to establish the characters beyond their caricatures stereotypes, paper-thin story that never really connects to anything, and only exists as a lazy way of giving the main character motivation to do SOMETHING rather than sitting his on ass, and beating up shitty villains, while wanking off to how "great" Fairy tail guild is, are undeniable.

    There is "no" different strokes for different folks here. You have an objectively shitty manga here.

    Are you referring to the games, manga or animation? And no, it did not fail at that stage. The story was told in an understandable manner and I was rarely confused by the story Mashima told, neither through visual or narrative means. The story wasn't good, but he told it in a fairly clear manner. If a comic suceeds at that, it has succeeded at being sequential art.
    Maybe if you were looking at in wikia-like-form.

    Understanding the story is not the problem here. It's the techniques, and the craft that are being used to tell that said story.

    I'm still perfectly willing to re-read the first chapters.
    So? People constantly go back, and watch The Room for its unintentional comedic value, not for its serious-artistic-quality.

    I've hardly ignored the series flaws, if any of my previous comments in this thread wasn't proof enough. "Lighthearted" doesn't mean it's bad or can't evoke emotions, just that it won't take you on dramatic and dark journeys, involve politics and that stuff. I count most of Star Trek: Next Generation into that category, doesn't make it bad.
    Except Fairytail doesn't really nail any of those elements.

    Light-hearted series can be crafted well, and have their own merits/area of expertise.

    hat I don't understand is, if you noticed the series was going to be shit from the first chapter then why did you continue to read it?
    Why does it really matter?

    But to answer; I like experiencing both the shit, and great works to see where they fail/succeed. I don't read/watch/play stuff to kill time. It's my hobby.

  16. #1536
    Champion Worrier Zar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfDarkness View Post

    I don't think so? I mean I was using them as an example of the things their opening nailed compare to the lackluster opening of FT.

    Either way which ever you want to put it; it still doesn't change the fact that FT's opening was neither emotional, hooking, intriguing, or anything that really set it apart.
    I really liked how FT's opening wasn't overly dramatic, but just Lucy trying to find the guild. And that little bit at the end where Natsu takes Lucy's hand was a sweet moment. It set the perfect mood for the rest of the series - a happy adventure where we get to know the characters as time goes on. It's one of my favorite set-ups - and subsequently one of my biggest disappointments was when Mashima abandoned that by trying to create a dramatic story where somehow Fairy Tail decided the fate of the continent.

    But I think I'm starting to understand where you're coming from. There's nothing that hints at a deeper layer or an overarching story, even as the series goes on. Unless you happen to be interested in the "day-today life of wizards" or the setting, there's nothing of value.

    I am talking from pretty much all angles. From the way the art is drawn, to the actual-use of the art in terms of what it really communicates, to the panel layout/flow to how generic, and standard the designs are, to how forgettable the actual dialogues are, to how lackluster the "fantasy" setting is, to how the tone constantly goes back, and forth between comedy, and serious (one moment even has an implication of RAPE/kidnapping of girls that are lured in, yet seconds later, the series goes back to comedy then serious again), and how NOTHING is given proper time to be developed, or have any real impact. This is the perfect example of an power-point presentation rather than an opening to a long-running fantasy series.

    There is no real flow. Things.....are just happening, and being thrown at the screen. Who the fuck is Natsu? Who the fuck is Happy? Who the fuck is Lucy? Who the fuck is Fairy tail? Why the fuck should the readers care? Nobody knows because the opening sure as hell doesn't even leave the room for events to be digested, and understood by the readers. And the biggest thing is that it still fails to say something substantial about the characters/plot/setting.
    I still think the art, visual flow and some of the story flow was alright, and I like the technique of not introducing everything right away (though Mashima did a questionable job at that). But I do agree about the weird jumps in mood and how things were never given time to develop. Kage's comment up above is a good example. Or how Lisanna turned out to be alive (in the stupidest way possible) undoing the genuine character development Natsu, Elfman and Mirajane had. Mashime can't balance serious and happy moments. Or all the inappropriate fan-service inserts.




    You can literally ignore that chapter, and not lose anything of substance (not that this series has any to begin with).
    You'd lose out on some parts, but not a whole lot, so agreed on that one.


    I'm not talking about what it says. Rather HOW its saying it.

    This stuff might be important, but it's thrown at you in the most laziest form. At this point, readers have literal zero fucks to give/care about the world-building.

    Good world-building is about the flow, and how the readers slowly by slowly learn more about the world. FT on the other hand just tries to throw exposition, and fails.
    ...


    Whether you enjoy it, or like it is your thing.

    But the actual problems in writing that fails to establish the characters beyond their caricatures stereotypes, paper-thin story that never really connects to anything, and only exists as a lazy way of giving the main character motivation to do SOMETHING rather than sitting his on ass, and beating up shitty villains, while wanking off to how "great" Fairy tail guild is, are undeniable.

    There is "no" different strokes for different folks here. You have an objectively shitty manga here.

    ----

    Maybe if you were looking at in wikia-like-form.

    Understanding the story is not the problem here. It's the techniques, and the craft that are being used to tell that said story.
    And I still think for the first few volumes, this wasn't the case. It wasn't until Mashima took his story too seriously and started repeating everything that it became a huge problem. And the techniques are more than good enough for a comic.


    So? People constantly go back, and watch The Room for its unintentional comedic value, not for its serious-artistic-quality.
    The difference is that I'm willing to enjoy the first volumes, not just laugh at it.

    Except Fairytail doesn't really nail any of those elements.

    Light-hearted series can be crafted well, and have their own merits/area of expertise.
    Got them right in the beginning, but then became a mess, so half-agreed at that.

    Why does it really matter?

    But to answer; I like experiencing both the shit, and great works to see where they fail/succeed. I don't read/watch/play stuff to kill time. It's my hobby.
    That makes sense. It's a good way to improve your own craft (and one of my own reasons for continuing to follow FT/Bleach/Naruto once they turned into shit).

    And it's hilarious. Where else could you experience masterpieces like major villains losing because they sneezed or Makarov coming back to life an absurd amount of times.


    I guess we're better off agreeing to disagree, or this will go on forever. But it was interesting reading your perspective.

  17. #1537

    Default Re: Fairy Tail Discussion IV

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfDarkness View Post
    I love how you highlight a part that literally starts off with "otherwise the series beginning", and somehow take that as me insulting you.

    Ah the irony.
    But you quite literally said I was incompetent.

    "Maybe for you.

    Otherwise the series beginning was in-your-incompetent."

    Just say what you mean more clearly I guess? What you said barely even looks like a sentence lol
    FMA 03> FMA Brotherhood

  18. #1538

    Default Re: Fairy Tail is Dead Discussion IV

    I guess the insult was towards... an entity which mostly deserves any insult, anyway.

    But one more question: Lets say I'm Mashima and right now I finished that first chapter. Besides, I'm having everything planned out like the overall main story, the overall theme and everything else. It may not be a masterpiece-plan, but it's at least a good, solid plan. Now I see your criticisms and I actually agree with you and therefore will do begin working at making a better final product, starting with a better possible second chapter. So going on from this exact assumption:

    Would you really say, despite me willing to improve, it's absolutely impossible to create any second chapter, any at all, (and therefore any following chapters) that'll can undo the mistakes from the first chapter?
    Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.

  19. #1539

    Default Re: Fairy Tail is Dead Discussion IV

    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post
    I guess the insult was towards... an entity which mostly deserves any insult, anyway.

    But one more question: Lets say I'm Mashima and right now I finished that first chapter. Besides, I'm having everything planned out like the overall main story, the overall theme and everything else. It may not be a masterpiece-plan, but it's at least a good, solid plan. Now I see your criticisms and I actually agree with you and therefore will do begin working at making a better final product, starting with a better possible second chapter. So going on from this exact assumption:

    Would you really say, despite me willing to improve, it's absolutely impossible to create any second chapter, any at all, (and therefore any following chapters) that'll can undo the mistakes from the first chapter?
    No.

    The first chapter is, well, the first chapter. There is no way that the opening chapter can ever determine the quality of the entire work especially long-running series where it takes time for the writers to find the footing, and get conformable.

    My arguments against Fairytail take the series trajectory in terms of quality over the years, into the account, as well as the writer's lack of drive, or vision, to talk about the overall quality, and why the series always had those problems in the beginning, and just became more noticeable as the series progressed.

    If i was writing all of this by simply reading the first chapter, then my arguments simply wouldn't hold any water. Opening chapters exist to interest potential readers into reading the series, and finding out what happens. There is just no way to get a grasp on the entire series in that small amount of time.

    I'll use MHA manga as an example of this; When i picked up the series, and read through the first chapter, it made me interested in it because of its underdog character story, and how impactful the last few panels of the chapter were. It was a series that announced itself to be a interesting with an relatedable main protag. Fast forward to present, and the series is a very predictable shonen that hits pretty much every modern shonen trope ever. It was a series that started off with a high-note, and devolved into a mindless shonen action series.

    Now to look at the other side of that; Berserk, one of my favorite manga of all time, started off as a fairly mediocre dark fantasy series, and was like that for the first three volumes. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't that good either, and I was about to drop the series, but once the Golden Age arc hit, the series quickly became one of the best character-study/journey of all time that didn't pull any punches when it came to the characters, and their relationships.

    There are plenty of series whose first chapter didn't hook me, or make any real impact, yet lot of them ended up being some of my favorite series of all time.

    With FT, the opening showcases some of the most basic key aspects that the manga didn't properly grasp, and get worst as the series progresses.

    It would be one thing if Mashima failed in the first chapter, but regained his footing, and improved on the aspects. It's another when the opening chapter pretty much foreshadows the level of amateur mistakes that Mashima will continue to make.

  20. #1540

    Default Re: Fairy Tail is Dead Discussion IV

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfDarkness View Post

    It would be one thing if Mashima failed in the first chapter, but regained his footing, and improved on the aspects. It's another when the opening chapter pretty much foreshadows the level of amateur mistakes that Mashima will continue to make.
    If that were the case, Fairy Tail would have just been a very dull and boring show.

    It became literally one of the worst written stories ever - at least that I've read. So nah, the first chapter 1's quality was nowhere near as putrid as the rest of it.
    FMA 03> FMA Brotherhood

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