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  1. #14061

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    The thing about the emergency was that it didn't subvert the constitution, which is why it is usually called a constitutional crisis and not a coup. Indira faced a massive electoral defeat and also saw the inside of a jail cell soon after, all within the same constitutional framework.

    It remains a black mark in our history as an independent nation but I take heart from the response too.

  2. #14062
    UNTITLED xan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by cooldud View Post
    The thing about the emergency was that it didn't subvert the constitution, which is why it is usually called a constitutional crisis and not a coup. Indira faced a massive electoral defeat and also saw the inside of a jail cell soon after, all within the same constitutional framework.

    It remains a black mark in our history as an independent nation but I take heart from the response too.
    The next round of PM elections would be testing times again. I don't see any reason why the current gov't won't win the majority next elections with both houses filled up with their sympathizers. They could literally do whatever the fuck they want to with the constitution after that. Scary stuff. I guess folks down here need to start taking mandatory Hindi courses sooner than expected
    “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

  3. #14063

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by cooldud View Post
    The thing about the emergency was that it didn't subvert the constitution, which is why it is usually called a constitutional crisis and not a coup. Indira faced a massive electoral defeat and also saw the inside of a jail cell soon after, all within the same constitutional framework.

    It remains a black mark in our history as an independent nation but I take heart from the response too.
    That's true,Indira became a dictator,but she was still a constitutionally certified dictator.

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    The next round of PM elections would be testing times again. I don't see any reason why the current gov't won't win the majority next elections with both houses filled up with their sympathizers. They could literally do whatever the fuck they want to with the constitution after that. Scary stuff. I guess folks down here need to start taking mandatory Hindi courses sooner than expected
    Baseless fear mongering.Anyway,even if you believe the stupid canard of "mudi is fascist because no one listens to us" that journos and opposition like to throw,still "doing whatever they want" would require 2/3 majority in RS.Which isn't happening anytime soon
    that which cannot be stopped:inherited will,a man's dream,and the flow of time.as long as man continues to seek out the answer to freedom,these things shall never be stopped.-PK Gol D. Roger

  4. #14064
    UNTITLED xan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by sggupta View Post
    Baseless fear mongering.Anyway,even if you believe the stupid canard of "mudi is fascist because no one listens to us" that journos and opposition like to throw,still "doing whatever they want" would require 2/3 majority in RS.Which isn't happening anytime soon
    Any democracy with a single major party with no sizeable opposition CAN lead to a problem especially when the masses are extremely diverse. It is never a myth. Compare the track record of the national parties and their 2nd terms. Every single one of them have reeked with controversies during their 2nd term except the initial Congress rule which ran purely on a post independent vigor. The current party has also allied with many regional ones to give them support in the upper houses which could of course help them push their bills with ease. My guess is that if no significant controversy occurs and it stays as it is, BJP will get a majority in both houses by 2020. I am not saying it would end up bad I am saying it could. It is just a probability.

    Recently the cap to political donations was removed with few clauses added namesake to comfort people that it can't escape the whip of justice. The ridiculous cow related hate mongering has increased big time with the economy having a bit of an edgy financial year too. Kashmir has gone downhill the past 2 years with the politicians promising a slightly more harsher approach which is a questionable but famously a more populist approach in clamping down on activities (although there are very less options). If the economy tanks after the new tax regime is introduced or anytime later, it won't be hard for the gov't to divert the attention to either Kashmir, pak or some apparently "anti-national" entity to target on to keep the people busy. Ruling party = Congress - Scams + Cows. It's just a classic tale of two parties!
    “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

  5. #14065

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    Any democracy with a single major party with no sizeable opposition CAN lead to a problem especially when the masses are extremely diverse. It is never a myth.
    yes yes i know.opposition is necessary.But that doesn't mean an opposition has to be supported just for the sake of an opposition.That doesn't mean that all the crimes of opposition be ignored or tolerated in the name of "democracy".Politics abhors a vaccum. Just like it happened in 1977,a new opposition will be created even if the current opposition is shit

    The current party has also allied with many regional ones to give them support in the upper houses which could of course help them push their bills with ease. My guess is that if no significant controversy occurs and it stays as it is, BJP will get a majority in both houses by 2020.
    I know.In fact by next year NDA will be in a very good position in RS,and with the help of neutral parties will be able to pass it's bills and manage conditional support from them.But as i said,that doesn't mean they can do anything they want.That is still a quite away,and requires almost a 2/3 rd majority.But even then,Congress was in majority everywhere till 1991 but nothing happened(except a failed attempt to subvert democracy).So pardon me if i am sceptical of the baseless warning issued by those who are used to power and privilege

    In fact the end of Emergency only reinforces my belief that Indian democracy won't be snuffed out so easily
    Recently the cap to political donations was removed with few clauses added namesake to comfort people that it can't escape the whip of justice
    .

    actually the anonymous cash donation limit was reduced from 20,000 to 2000.Personally i don't see what's the problem with promotion of clean of political funding is.The reality is that majority of funding of political parties is done with black money.The aim should be to encourage clean money into politics,money that is not in bundles of crores of cash and money that is recorded and legitimate.I don't understand at all how this is bad in an Indian context to promote non-cash donations

    The ridiculous cow related hate mongering has increased big time
    No it hasn't.
    https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/s...51820658843648


    https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/s...28039106965504

    A nice rebuttal of that narrative(and all other communal narratives too that indian liberals use every time they fail to bring up real issues and overuse the bogey of communalisation) from a person who is no fan of the current Govt

    with the economy having a bit of an edgy financial year too. Kashmir has gone downhill the past 2 years with the politicians promising a slightly more harsher approach which is a questionable but famously a more populist approach in clamping down on activities (although there are very less options).
    kashmir is definitely in a bad situation but anyone with an unbiased view of the situation knows that approach till now has hardly been "harsh".You had such a situation that killing a terrorist with links to Hafiz Saeed was treated as "overly harsh" by the Media!The only solution is taking off the kid's gloves.The situation is in a rapid flux atm,and i don't expect any magical overnight solution for a 70-year old conflict.But The Jihadi's and terrorists are desperate,so much so that they are now killing and attacking their own people!They are alienating the very people they claim to fight for.The masks are falling off.

    If the economy tanks after the new tax regime is introduced or anytime later, it won't be hard for the gov't to divert the attention to either Kashmir, pak or some apparently "anti-national" entity to target on to keep the people busy. Ruling party = Congress - Scams + Cows. It's just a classic tale of two parties!
    Cmon,i have heard tons of negative opinions on GST,but a tanked economy?Seriously?

    and yeah,that comparison doesn't fit.You forgot to minus the scams,add the fact that the Power sector has been completely transformed,the Number of roads being built is now almost twice what it was before etc.basically infrastructure is nowhere near the same,and i am not even starting on the other policy improvements

    Anyway,honestly,i too used to believe in that false equivalency.But now it's completely different.And frankly it's astonishing how much my views have changed in less than a year!And this is primarily because of the stupidity of the Congress and gang that even sceptics like me,who actually had a long and bitter argument with a friend over why Modi alone is not the answer,now actually believes just the opposite.And still they refuse to learn the lesson.

    Edit:and also
    Compare the track record of the national parties and their 2nd terms. Every single one of them have reeked with controversies during their 2nd term except the initial Congress rule
    Umm,the only party/coalition to have more than 1 consecutive term is congress
    Last edited by sggupta; June 28th, 2017 at 10:00 AM.
    that which cannot be stopped:inherited will,a man's dream,and the flow of time.as long as man continues to seek out the answer to freedom,these things shall never be stopped.-PK Gol D. Roger

  6. #14066

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Yesterday was an interesting day.
    https://www.caracaschronicles.com/20...wayward-pilot/

    While a random lunatic (or a plant) took a chopper and started throwing hand grenades at goverment targets (no victims, or damages reported), a very known lunatic started ranting on how if they didn't win the next election with votes, they would win with bullets.

    All this while the Prosecutor's office is being stripped of most of it's powers, and the army and the militia tried to get into the legislative palace with suspicious boxes, and assaulted some of the oposition lawmakers.

    This is beyond disgusting, what kind of hypocrites are the world leaders that allow this to happen? One thing is the retarded dance that we have been playing all along, that "this is ok, because there is a semblance of order", but now? "If not votes we'll win with bullets"? And nothing happens? Last OEA (EAS? ASO?) meeting has soured me in the international sphere. Are they corrupt? powerless? Useless? Illegible but:

    Fuck: Nicaragua, San Cristobal and Nievas (who?), San Vicente and las granadinas, Bolivia, Dominica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Granada, Surinam, Trinidad and Tobago, Antigua y Barbuda, and TRIPLE FUCK to Republica Dominicana.

    And Haiti, I can't blame you, but I will punch you in the nose.

    We needed like 3 more votes for them to write a "strongly worded letter" or some useless posturing.


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  7. #14067
    UNTITLED xan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by sggupta View Post
    actually the anonymous cash donation limit was reduced from 20,000 to 2000.Personally i don't see what's the problem with promotion of clean of political funding is.The reality is that majority of funding of political parties is done with black money.The aim should be to encourage clean money into politics,money that is not in bundles of crores of cash and money that is recorded and legitimate.I don't understand at all how this is bad in an Indian context to promote non-cash donations
    I am referring to the removal of cap for political funding from corporates. There is no limit to the amount they could fund and the name of the parties they fund can also be hidden from the company's accounts. Knowing the burueacracy of the country, it wouldn't be difficult to figure out how corporates can easily have a steady influence on political parties just like the lobbying that occurs in other countries. In a country with an unsustainable wealth gap it could lead to a lopsided crony capitalistic favoring parties which would lobby for removing vital regulations that protect people from all levels

    Maybe I didn't put my point across properly here. What I meant was that the cow vigilantism which has come into spotlight as a result of the cow slaughter ban that was initiated last month is an unneccessary step to accomplish... what exactly? From the business point of view regulating cow slaughter and making it to move more towards the formal economy in a phased manner would have been more appropriate than an outright ban which screwed up the livelihood of many people and gave a negative publicity. The cow vigilantism just helps the opposition build a case out of nothing but can't blame them to use an opportunity now can we (Refer BJP's bitching about the GST few years back)

    https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/s...28039106965504

    A nice rebuttal of that narrative(and all other communal narratives too that indian liberals use every time they fail to bring up real issues and overuse the bogey of communalisation) from a person who is no fan of the current Govt
    I never bought up the topic of random lynchings based on religion so this isn't for my sake I suppose?

    kashmir is definitely in a bad situation but anyone with an unbiased view of the situation knows that approach till now has hardly been "harsh".You had such a situation that killing a terrorist with links to Hafiz Saeed was treated as "overly harsh" by the Media!The only solution is taking off the kid's gloves.The situation is in a rapid flux atm,and i don't expect any magical overnight solution for a 70-year old conflict.But The Jihadi's and terrorists are desperate,so much so that they are now killing and attacking their own people!They are alienating the very people they claim to fight for.The masks are falling off.
    I have been to Kashmir and I have interacted with people there during my stay and the story is utterly different than what's being put in the media. What we consider as "anti-national" (according to whatever reason given) is entirely different from the perspective laid out by the people there. It's not that people are randomnly taking up arms and attacking the army. There is a long history of atrocities which have gone unnoticed or at least hidden from the general public due to the failure of the previous governments there. However, trying to "solve" the situation there by direct confrontation isn't a bright and fresh idea committed over it so far. The story is much more complicated and requires a decade long plan if they really want a possibly peaceful solution to retain parts of the state

    Cmon,i have heard tons of negative opinions on GST,but a tanked economy?Seriously?
    You do realize GST is going to hurt a lot of the low level dealers right? Anyway my point about the economy tanking was an assumption in saying that IF it did tank by domestic policy flaws or foreign market effects, there are lot of chances the gov't could divert the attention to something cheesy. It is definitely not a new strategy or something relatively new to any previously ruled gov't around the globe

    and yeah,that comparison doesn't fit.You forgot to minus the scams,add the fact that the Power sector has been completely transformed,the Number of roads being built is now almost twice what it was before etc.basically infrastructure is nowhere near the same,and i am not even starting on the other policy improvements
    .. but I did minus the scams there

    You do realize that the changes you have mentioned were all part of the growth the country was going through over the past ten yrs? It's not like suddenly from 2014 things started blooming from the previous years where the country was in absolute tatters (oh no it wasn't, I made some good money in stocks). But that's not something people can be blamed because the rise of social media coincided with the current gov't hence the developments that were there throughout the country were cumulatively awarded to the ruling party. Developing roads come under the state govt so I don't understand why the central govt is given credit here? Same with pretty much majority of the infrastructure around the states attribute to state gov'ts. I do agree that the power sector was worked upon by the govt at a commendable rate

    Anyway,honestly,i too used to believe in that false equivalency.But now it's completely different.And frankly it's astonishing how much my views have changed in less than a year!And this is primarily because of the stupidity of the Congress and gang that even sceptics like me,who actually had a long and bitter argument with a friend over why Modi alone is not the answer,now actually believes just the opposite.And still they refuse to learn the lesson.
    Views do keep changing as time passes on and it's good to keep our senses when we read through the junk pitched out by the media. In fact, I did vote for Modi during the previous elections and I probably will vote for him again although I am a vocal critic when it comes to his policies because there are certainly somethings which benefit from the presence of BJP as compared to Congress at the moment. However, there is nothing wrong with being critical and cautious over the probable issues that may rise as a result of being tad a bit too optimistic
    “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

  8. #14068

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    I am referring to the removal of cap for political funding from corporates. There is no limit to the amount they could fund and the name of the parties they fund can also be hidden from the company's accounts. Knowing the burueacracy of the country, it wouldn't be difficult to figure out how corporates can easily have a steady influence on political parties just like the lobbying that occurs in other countries.
    and they aren't already doing that?20000 can be donated to parties anonymously through cash.That cash primarily comes from real estate mafia,private educational institutes and other such things
    In a country with an unsustainable wealth gap it could lead to a lopsided crony capitalistic favoring parties which would lobby for removing vital regulations that protect people from all levels
    as i said,In India the primary problem is the mixing of black economy with politics.You already have dirty money into politics and thus the influence of mafia's and strongman in politics.This is only a transfer from cash to non-cash.In India's case,it is needed to do this,because India has a huge black economy compared to other economies of the same size



    Maybe I didn't put my point across properly here. What I meant was that the cow vigilantism which has come into spotlight as a result of the cow slaughter ban that was initiated last month is an unneccessary step to accomplish... what exactly? From the business point of view regulating cow slaughter and making it to move more towards the formal economy in a phased manner would have been more appropriate than an outright ban which screwed up the livelihood of many people and gave a negative publicity. The cow vigilantism just helps the opposition build a case out of nothing but can't blame them to use an opportunity now can we (Refer BJP's bitching about the GST few years back)
    many points here:

    1)no,cow slaughter is not banned.What is being done,though,is sale of cattle for slaughter has been regulated
    very strictly.This should be very clear,and was even pointed out by a Bench of Kerala high court.It only goes to show how screwed up the media is

    2)i also agree with you.Though there is no ban,the over-regulation only hurts everybody.But the "cow vigilantism" is seriously just a media balloon full of hype.These incidents have happened even before,but aside from that a lot of them are a result of anger against thieves and mafia who steal cows.and while unfortunate,it should be looked in that context too

    3)The canard that "BJP blocked GST" is so baseless.First,the version of GST that was being considered is hugely different.This version of GST is much more federal in nature,and answers a lot of the demands of states,like awarding them any loss arising out of GST for the starting period,shared jurisdiction etc.Second,Even Congress state Govt's were not happy with the GST that was being proposed.Many Cong state govt like maharashtra had expressed their dissatisfaction with the GST. And third,let's agree and say that BJP govt was being a typical opposition party who was opposing for the sake of it.Even then BJP only had like 40-50 members in RS out of 245.COngress could have easily worked with other parties to pass the GST by negotiations and deals,like Jaitley did by convincing the large number of disparate parties.The Congress was then isolated,and forced to join in




    What we consider as "anti-national" (according to whatever reason given) is entirely different from the perspective laid out by the people there. It's not that people are randomnly taking up arms and attacking the army. There is a long history of atrocities which have gone unnoticed or at least hidden from the general public due to the failure of the previous governments there.
    Like The ethnic cleansing of kashmiri Pandits?anyway,sure the Kashmiri's do have a sense of hurt by the actions of the Govt,whether right or not.But it is undeniable that the separatist movement was just a cover for a radicalised jihad.this is much more apparent right now,with their activities like capturing and killing kashmiri soldiers,lynching a kashmiri police-man.They are attacking the very people they claim to represent.And the number of youth lining up to join army/police and other jobs do indicate that the public has now moved on from this old mindset,and change is possible.

    You do realize GST is going to hurt a lot of the low level dealers right?

    It is also going to simplify and mainstream a lot of taxation,and also ensure a lot more people,especially traders pay tax than before.
    Anyway my point about the economy tanking was an assumption in saying that IF it did tank by domestic policy flaws or foreign market effects, there are lot of chances the gov't could divert the attention to something cheesy. It is definitely not a new strategy or something relatively new to any previously ruled gov't around the globe
    Except i have no reason to believe that.I remember back in 2014,the same fear mongering was employed by the opposition:"If Modi comes,there will be riots everywhere""It's gonna destroy the secular fabric of our country" and all other nonsense

    You do realize that the changes you have mentioned were all part of the growth the country was going through over the past ten yrs?

    How exactly?there is marked change in Infrastructure,and the the difference between the year 2013 and 2015 itself is quite stark in many cases

    not like suddenly from 2014 things started blooming from the previous years where the country was in absolute tatters (oh no it wasn't, I made some good money in stocks). But that's not something people can be blamed because the rise of social media coincided with the current gov't hence the developments that were there throughout the country were cumulatively awarded to the ruling party
    No,2014 really did suddenly change things,that's not something that i say because of "social media".

    In the 10 years before 2014,defense acquisition was almost nil.in the 10 years,we almost had a energy crisis with a shortage of coal.In the 10 years of UPA really,there was no tangible and effective improvement in infrastructure.Govt tenders were opaque,corruption discouraged investment,natural resources were stolen,there were no economic reforms,loans were given out by Public banks that have mostly become NPA's now,inflation was above 10%(even discounting the reduction in oil prices,food inflation itself has also fallen a lot) etc

    Developing roads come under the state govt so I don't understand why the central govt is given credit here?
    Umm,Central Govt has an entire ministry about roads,and it is their statistics i am telling you.

    Same with pretty much majority of the infrastructure around the states attribute to state gov'ts
    I Don't know where you get that idea,Centre has major part of the infrastructure jobs.Let me give you a recent example of the stuff that is going on:https://swarajyamag.com/insta/ten-in...y-2018-gadkari

    inland waterways,a subject that has been ignored for almost the entirety of time,is now finally given the push it needs.

    http://www.thebetterindia.com/106477...-inauguration/

    preparations are on fast speed for a train to Leh.

    just 2 examples off the top of my head.Honestly though,no matter how much of the progress and policies i tell to others,whether it be millions of toilets built,crores of bank accounts opened,the savings in subsidy with Direct transfers,the focus on infrastructure in North-east,all of it is dismissed as "PR" or "Perception management" by the left leaning critics in my experience

    while neutral criticism is all well and good,but most of the criticism that i encounter,including yours,is just full of canards and half-truths.And most of the good stuff is mostly dismissed as "social media PR".Anyway,that's just my opinion
    Last edited by sggupta; June 28th, 2017 at 11:44 AM.
    that which cannot be stopped:inherited will,a man's dream,and the flow of time.as long as man continues to seek out the answer to freedom,these things shall never be stopped.-PK Gol D. Roger

  9. #14069
    UNTITLED xan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by sggupta View Post
    and they aren't already doing that?20000 can be donated to parties anonymously through cash.That cash primarily comes from real estate mafia,private educational institutes and other such things

    as i said,In India the primary problem is the mixing of black economy with politics.You already have dirty money into politics and thus the influence of mafia's and strongman in politics.This is only a transfer from cash to non-cash.In India's case,it is needed to do this,because India has a huge black economy compared to other economies of the same size
    That's the funny part because majority of the economy is still part of the informal economy. So accounting political parties to the formal economy won't have the desired effects YET when the majority of the country runs on the informal economy where the money further gets pumped. Now removing the limit with not closing the huge outlet of informal economy which thrives on cash, it becomes counterproductive to the whole restriction of cash expenses being unaccounted. And if everyone knows that the black economy has contributed ill to the current political scenario how many raw sword edged cases against these parties are being considered now?! Something to ponder over for sure


    3)The canard that "BJP blocked GST" is so baseless.First,the version of GST that was being considered is hugely different.This version of GST is much more federal in nature,and answers a lot of the demands of states,like awarding them any loss arising out of GST for the starting period,shared jurisdiction etc.Second,Even Congress state Govt's were not happy with the GST that was being proposed.Many Cong state govt like maharashtra had expressed their dissatisfaction with the GST. And third,let's agree and say that BJP govt was being a typical opposition party who was opposing for the sake of it.Even then BJP only had like 40-50 members in RS out of 245.COngress could have easily worked with other parties to pass the GST by negotiations and deals,like Jaitley did by convincing the large number of disparate parties.The Congress was then isolated,and forced to join in
    Not exactly. Yes there were flaws in the gst but bjp never wanted to make an attempt to even discuss about it when it came the table. They boycotted the houses multiple times avoiding productive time to try to modify the bills but instead took it upon themselves to unequivocally boycott it. You think all states are supporting the current gst now? TN maharashtra and gujarat themselves were completely against the bill with maharashtra and gujarat soon coming into the fold due to the centre influence and positive changes to the bill. Again, for changes to the bill it requires cooperation which wasn't there the last time around

    Like The ethnic cleansing of kashmiri Pandits?anyway,sure the Kashmiri's do have a sense of hurt by the actions of the Govt,whether right or not.But it is undeniable that the separatist movement was just a cover for a radicalised jihad.this is much more apparent right now,with their activities like capturing and killing kashmiri soldiers,lynching a kashmiri police-man.They are attacking the very people they claim to represent.And the number of youth lining up to join army/police and other jobs do indicate that the public has now moved on from this old mindset,and change is possible.
    What happenned to the pandits was unfair and it requires justice but that doesn't justify injustice to the other residents. But yes of course it has gone beyond the diplomatic terms now and it has become an easy trumpet for propaganda for the neighbors. It has become a bit too late for diplomatic handling of the event. The annoying part for me is the general population fails to understand the exact problem there with the decade of political complication and suggest blatant violent actions. Its easy to suggest violent crackdowna from the comfiness of our seats but it has ridiculous repurcussions as seen from the Kashmir crackdown that occurred decades back for which the effects are still obviously visible now


    It is also going to simplify and mainstream a lot of taxation,and also ensure a lot more people,especially traders pay tax than before.
    Its easy to simplify an entire tax system based on our understanding but its effects on informal economy have also been explained to us by experts. We aren't experts so I am just parroting the caution that they themselves suggested. Ultimately they did presume that it will assist in the countrys well being on the long term which I do agree with

    Except i have no reason to believe that.I remember back in 2014,the same fear mongering was employed by the opposition:"If Modi comes,there will be riots everywhere""It's gonna destroy the secular fabric of our country" and all other nonsense
    There is nothing wrong with harboring caution. If things went well that doesn't invalidate caution people had over the past events. Calling the entire caution as nonsense is a bit of an overreaction I would say


    How exactly?there is marked change in Infrastructure,and the the difference between the year 2013 and 2015 itself is quite stark in many cases



    No,2014 really did suddenly change things,that's not something that i say because of "social media".

    In the 10 years before 2014,defense acquisition was almost nil.in the 10 years,we almost had a energy crisis with a shortage of coal.In the 10 years of UPA really,there was no tangible and effective improvement in infrastructure.Govt tenders were opaque,corruption discouraged investment,natural resources were stolen,there were no economic reforms,loans were given out by Public banks that have mostly become NPA's now,inflation was above 10%(even discounting the reduction in oil prices,food inflation itself has also fallen a lot) etc
    Yes and there were changes to the country from 2002 to 2012 too. If you just mention that the country was sleeping till 2014 it thoroughly invalidates the hardwork spent on the economy the past ten years. We survived the 2008 crash and it couldnt have been done without a strong govt backing the economy. There were some crucial regulations lifted during the congress first term which helped in bringing in quite a lot of employment to the country. Invalidating all that by saying SCAMS is just as equal to invalidating bjps good stuff by just saying cows! Which is why the formula I mentioned above underlines the irony of both govts.


    Umm,Central Govt has an entire ministry about roads,and it is their statistics i am telling you.



    I Don't know where you get that idea,Centre has major part of the infrastructure jobs.Let me give you a recent example of the stuff that is going on:https://swarajyamag.com/insta/ten-in...y-2018-gadkari

    inland waterways,a subject that has been ignored for almost the entirety of time,is now finally given the push it needs.

    http://www.thebetterindia.com/106477...-inauguration/

    preparations are on fast speed for a train to Leh.

    just 2 examples off the top of my head.Honestly though,no matter how much of the progress and policies i tell to others,whether it be millions of toilets built,crores of bank accounts opened,the savings in subsidy with Direct transfers,the focus on infrastructure in North-east,all of it is dismissed as "PR" or "Perception management" by the left leaning critics in my experience
    I don't entirely deny that central govt has a say on infrastructure and roadways but majority of the work is done by local municipal departments. I dont understand why this is confusing. If central govt tries to work on the roadways of each and every state it isnt a feasible workload to handle. Every state that ive been in differs in maintaining their roadways for which the states road maintaining departments are all different. I believe you are talking about highways. Again, do some background work apart from the articles which might be diplomatically misleading. Some of the further examples you have given are of course good which is why I do still support bjp.

    while neutral criticism is all well and good,but most of the criticism that i encounter,including yours,is just full of canards and half-truths
    Erm. Ok.

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    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Let me be clear and point down the real advantages of this government and which would have a significant effect on the country before you again for some reason drop me into a ideology category and rant about my statements lol

    - A new ministry for encouraging entrepreneurship - This was a new initiative that was kicked off by the current govt and not followed from the previous one. We are yet to see the role this would play but the objective is quite fascinating. As someone heavily involved in a circle of friends who are entrepreneurs, its easy to see the stuff that are actually beneficial on the ground level from this

    - Uranium deal with the Aussies - Yeah this is a big one. As I mentinoed, a good boost to power sector encompasses good deals such as this one

    - Pro-FDIs & co - I don't think any previous PMs have met microsoft, pepsico, Facebook and Amazon CEOs personally till date so kudos to that

    - We do have some pathetic labour laws and it was kind of fixed up by the gov't to aid in entrepreneurship too

    - Clean India and Make in India - Again these are good starting points. Awareness is always appreciated and immediate resolution of the problems isn't what I expect. Like really, there is no need for you to point out numbers for this because THAT becomes a PR initiative rather than just wait for more years to see the final effects of it. I have seen the effects of this in the ground level so I can say positively that it's a social change not a number game

    Of course there are many flaws and concerns that come along with these plans too (if you are of course interested in listening to both sides of the argument and then take a decision that is) but that doesn't invalidate that its a good start. However some policies are introduced with more amounts of bad than good to go around it which then ruins the purpose of such plans. If you really want to take a balanced decision, it's better to compare both sides rather than terming the people who present the opposing viewpoints as someone who are voluntarily going against the country (for some awkward reason?!)

    If you still think I parrot against the ruling party with no basis around my arguments then well.. can't help ya. Bitching about a policy doesn't mean I invalidate the entire governance. I see this pattern in the country where you either support the party completely or your labelled a liberal nuthead blah blah which is amusing and just a lazy man's way to validate their own opinions
    Last edited by xan; June 28th, 2017 at 09:10 PM.
    “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

  10. #14070
    Someone call for Zeidoktor sgamer82's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    "Special Report: Philippine police use hospitals to hide drug killings" - http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ph...-idUSKBN19K1NT

    The residents of Old Balara hid in their homes when gunfire erupted in their Manila district last September. They didn't see the police operation that killed seven drug suspects that night.

    But they witnessed the gory aftermath and it haunts them still.

    That night, Herlina Alim said she watched police haul away the men's bodies, leaving trails of blood. "They were dragged down the alley like pigs," she said. Her neighbor Lenlen Magano said she saw three bodies, face down and motionless, piled at the end of the alley while police stood calmly by.

    It was at least an hour, according to residents, before the victims were thrown into a truck and taken to hospital in what a police report said was a bid to save their lives. Old Balara's chief, the elected head of the district, told Reuters he was perplexed. They were already dead, Allan Franza said, so why take them to hospital?

    An analysis of crime data from two of Metro Manila's five police districts and interviews with doctors, law enforcement officials and victims' families point to one answer: Police were sending corpses to hospitals to destroy evidence at crime scenes and hide the fact that they were executing drug suspects.

    Waldorf:
    You know Statler, after watching the last seven hundred episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
    Statler: No you haven't.
    Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!

  11. #14071

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Don't know why they would need to hide evidence when it's pretty obvious what's happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  12. #14072

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by xan View Post
    That's the funny part because majority of the economy is still part of the informal economy. So accounting political parties to the formal economy won't have the desired effects YET when the majority of the country runs on the informal economy where the money further gets pumped.
    But it is only when you incentivize the political parties to move to formal economy that this transition will take place right?The black economy is huge but it is not majority of the economy by any means.Even the biggest estimates put it around 20% of the GDP i think.and the important fact is that a majority of black economy is involved in politics more than anything else.So it should be politics that should be tried to be cleansed first,rather than waiting for the rest of the economy to change.Without trying to reform political funding,you cannot in any way claim to fight black money

    yeah that argument now removing the limit with not closing the huge outlet of informal economy which thrives on cash, it becomes counterproductive to the whole restriction of cash expenses being unaccounted.
    but the outlet of informal economy into political funding IS being stopped by restricting anonymous donations to just 2k from the previous 20k. And i believe other measures to reduce the black economy are also being taken,but that is another story entirely
    And if everyone knows that the black economy has contributed ill to the current political scenario how many raw sword edged cases against these parties are being considered now?! Something to ponder over for sure
    while that's a legit question,personally i don't think there's any practical possibility to catch all the already corrupt people.But that doesn't mean the matter should be just left idle without trying to change it.The Govt is going after some of the big fishes like lalu,Chidambram etc but of course they are gonna sing the song of "political witch-hunting" when it is brought up,and actual convictions are unlikely.

    But overall as i said,if you are worried about anonymity,you are too late.Political funding is overwhelmingly anonymous even before this move.Nothing drastically is being changed in that aspect.

    Not exactly. Yes there were flaws in the gst but bjp never wanted to make an attempt to even discuss about it when it came the table.
    That's not what i remember.I remember BJP giving very shrill and vocal arguments against it,and their primary grouse around it as it being not federal enough in nature

    They boycotted the houses multiple times avoiding productive time to try to modify the bills but instead took it upon themselves to unequivocally boycott it.
    I am sorry but wouldn't boycotting the house actually allow the UPA a clean environment to pass the bill?or did you mean stalling the house
    You think all states are supporting the current gst now?
    well yeah,considering it passed with no dissent in the rajya sabha,and that the GST council has been able to make all decisions unanimously.The bill gives so much power to state govts even after it's passage,with the GST council,that the fact that the entire process has been completed without any vote is itself an achievement i'd say
    TN maharashtra and gujarat themselves were completely against the bill with maharashtra and gujarat soon coming into the fold due to the centre influence and positive changes to the bill.
    Exactly,BJP was able to persuade third parties like Tamil nadu,Andhra and states like Maharashtra(ruled by them only) etc by negotiating the bill and changing a lot of stuff.In the end Congress was isolated and was forced to accept the bill or else be seen as diversionary after the whole monsoon session fiasco. UPA also had that option of negotiating with parties other than BJP. BJP hardly ruled 5-6 states in 2012,maybe even less around 2008-09.But congress didn't have the political capital r willpower to actually negotiate with anyone

    Again, for changes to the bill it requires cooperation which wasn't there the last time around
    Yes,and the co-operation has to come from the ruling party,not the opposition.As i said,if UPA had garnered the support of it's allies and other third-parties,then the BJP also would have been cornered.

    Frankly,i think it's only because the deal making skills of Jaitley that GST was able to be passed with the support of numerous and distributed parties.Congress only has itself to blame for failing to develop consensus even among it's own Govt's after 10 years,let alone allies and forgetting third-parties altogether


    What happenned to the pandits was unfair and it requires justice but that doesn't justify injustice to the other residents.
    The ethnic cleansing of Pandits is not just "unfair",in fact it is a stark display of what the movement in Kashmir is actually about:a call for a islamic caliphate.A call for violence on religious grounds.The veneer of "kashmiriyat" and past ills has been broken many times even recently,with people like Zakir Musa openly calling for sharia rule
    But yes of course it has gone beyond the diplomatic terms now and it has become an easy trumpet for propaganda for the neighbors. It has become a bit too late for diplomatic handling of the event.
    As i have heard from people with familiarity with this,Pakistan since the beginning has been the prime actor in kashmir. It is not really anything recent.
    The annoying part for me is the general population fails to understand the exact problem there with the decade of political complication and suggest blatant violent actions. Its easy to suggest violent crackdowna from the comfiness of our seats but it has ridiculous repurcussions as seen from the Kashmir crackdown that occurred decades back for which the effects are still obviously visible now
    I agree,most people are ill-informed and have knee jerk reaction about Kashmir.But i think that the situation in kashmir is improving.What's being done now is what's necessary,which though will bring a temporary upheavel,but in the end will being an overall improvement.Anyway,we can only wait and see now


    Its easy to simplify an entire tax system based on our understanding but its effects on informal economy have also been explained to us by experts. We aren't experts so I am just parroting the caution that they themselves suggested. Ultimately they did presume that it will assist in the countrys well being on the long term which I do agree with
    Many people do caution that it would be disruptive in the short term,but i haven't really seen anyone saying that it would be harmful in the long term.Because the current system is so complex and screwed up,that nothing can be worse than the present.And especially not a Centralised tax system

    Yes and there were changes to the country from 2002 to 2012 too. If you just mention that the country was sleeping till 2014 it thoroughly invalidates the hardwork spent on the economy the past ten years. We survived the 2008 crash and it couldnt have been done without a strong govt backing the economy. There were some crucial regulations lifted during the congress first term which helped in bringing in quite a lot of employment to the country. Invalidating all that by saying SCAMS is just as equal to invalidating bjps good stuff by just saying cows! Which is why the formula I mentioned above underlines the irony of both govts.
    Firstly,i never said that everyone was sleeping of the last 10 years.But i would still say that we survived in the past 10 years in spite of the congress,not because of it.The corruption and ineffeciency of bureacracy is the primary reason.the lethargy in some sectors was specially shocking,like Defense acquisitions.The botched up foreign policy and geopolitics is another.And the sky-rocketing inflation another.Anyway i would say that the negatives far outweigh the positives according to me,no matter how i look at it.Not only were populist schemes were used instead of investing in infrastructure,but these very schemes were sources of humongous corruption,which itself would then go to sustain the already corrupt Govt and party.

    and secondly,while "SCAMS" is a major and serious concern and problem with the congress govt,"COW" is just a media bubble made to show the BJP as backward and stupid like all other supposedly crazy RW's. One sticks very much,while the other just washes away.The only "scheme" for cow preservation that i see the centre as making is cattle ID tags,which co-incidentally is a practice followed in many countries already

    I don't entirely deny that central govt has a say on infrastructure and roadways but majority of the work is done by local municipal departments.
    but you did deny it
    I dont understand why this is confusing. If central govt tries to work on the roadways of each and every state it isn't a feasible workload to handle. Every state that ive been in differs in maintaining their roadways for which the states road maintaining departments are all different.
    of course,majority of the roadways are maintained by the states.But again,the Centre's role is still a lot because of our centralised system

    I believe you are talking about highways. Again, do some background work apart from the articles which might be diplomatically misleading.
    See, you now casually dismiss anything i say and act all patronising with me while accusing me of calling you "liberal nuthead" and being blinded by my political leanings.

    Yes, i am talking about highways,but if you actually bother to look up the ministry of road and transport,it is responsible for much more than highways.There are Road projects apart from Highways that central Govt is involved in,aside from bridges,canals,and many other projects.and of course the aforementioned Inland waterways that is being planned properly for the first time

    Let me be clear and point down the real advantages of this government and which would have a significant effect on the country before you again for some reason drop me into a ideology category and rant about my statements lol
    Where exactly did i drop you in any ideological category?

    If you really want to take a balanced decision, it's better to compare both sides rather than terming the people who present the opposing viewpoints as someone who are voluntarily going against the country (for some awkward reason?!)
    ok,that's bullshit.where did i imply that you are going against the country?and you accuse me of being partisan?

    anyway,let me explain why i called your arguments as canards.You not only were unaware about the facts of cases like the supposed "beef ban" ,but you were also giving the same ineffecient and tired arguments that BJP "blocked" the GST, and how the pol funding was somehow made opaque,and you even insinuated that i was ignorant about everything since i thought that central Govt actually builds roads(which they do),and that i and others were just blinded by the PR craze of this Govt without actually using our brains to analyse the situation.But now you act like i am the only one who is prone to lazy arguments.

    anyways,i'll just end by saying that the stuff that you point out is indeed great,but i myself don't think it's the big-ticket difference that makes me think that BJP is doing so much better.For me it's basically a completely different list:

    1)Infrastructure:mainly Railways,Transport and Power.The top performance in this has to be Piyush Goyal's. Looking at his achievements feels like going thorough a propaganda list,because the difference as astounding.He was able to reduce a 5% energy deficiency to less than a percent in 3 years,Overturn the fiscal health of State electricity boards with the scheme of UDAY,and massively improve the solar-energy capacity of the country.In this case i believe numbers do matter a lot.

    2)the Effeciency of the Subsidies:this one is so simple and yet so effective.The centre managed to save tons on subsidies by directly transferring the subsidies instead of the old corrupt method filled with leakages.Schemes like MNEREGA,instead of being examples of wasteful socialism,became result -oriented and focused on a useful deliverables for employment,mostly irrigation projects.New socialist schemes,like ujjawala yojana,providing free cylinders to poor was so successful in just 1 year that it had a huge impact electorally,and resulted in BJP's voteshare among women to be significantly more than men

    Basically ,starting socialism 2.0:new and improved version.

    3)Foreign relations and geopolitics:this one is something that could take a lot of time to elucidate ,so i'll just say that we are finally viewing geopolitics and foreign relations beyond just the lens of pakistan or america,and are actually engaging in areas where we have long been negligent,often criminally so.an important example being out neighbourhood,which we recently dedicated a satellite to

    4)Corruption and black money:I am maybe one of the few persons who is actually optimistic that the gains of Demo far outweigh the losses,and other steps the the Govt has taken in this direction,like a new benami transactions law(which lay dormant all this while),black money law,Signing many bilateral and multilateral treaties regarding double taxation and black money,making Govt tendering processes more transparent,opening a centralised website for all Central Govt purchase(it's still a work in progress iirc but still a great initaive) etc

    If you still think I parrot against the ruling party with no basis around my arguments then well.. can't help ya. Bitching about a policy doesn't mean I invalidate the entire governance. I see this pattern in the country where you either support the party completely or your labelled a liberal nuthead blah blah which is amusing and just a lazy man's way to validate their own opinions
    actually,i don't think so.i do think that your fears of constitution getting changed and emergency like situation returning are just baseless,and that some of your criticism's are arguments to support that fear just don't stand up,like political funding,kashmir or even GST. But that's that though.I don't actually think you are blindly against the Govt,frankly i was just talking about other supposed liberals that i have debated with who just don't care no matter what the facts are.I should have worded my reply more properly
    Last edited by sggupta; June 29th, 2017 at 12:11 PM.
    that which cannot be stopped:inherited will,a man's dream,and the flow of time.as long as man continues to seek out the answer to freedom,these things shall never be stopped.-PK Gol D. Roger

  13. #14073

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Just something fun I made during the latest Survivor playing as Monji:
    Spoiler:


  14. #14074

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    Finally. Looking at you next Austria.

  15. #14075

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Finally. Looking at you next Austria.
    Why Austria? And didn't Austria nearly turn nazi at the last elections?

  16. #14076

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    Why Austria? And didn't Austria nearly turn nazi at the last elections?
    It and Italy (and Northern Ireland) are the only Western European countries where it hasn't been legalized yet.

  17. #14077

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    Why Austria? And didn't Austria nearly turn nazi at the last elections?
    Because Austria is "More Germans: the Country". There's a cultural/linguistic connection, and changes like this have a viral nature.
    Its the same reason Australia has been on the dock for awhile now as the last Anglophone country to not have gay marriage (if we're being super charitable to the UK and ignoring Northern Ireland).
    I'd throw Switzerland in too, but they have direct democracy on things like this, and are notoriously stubborn in the sense that they operate independently of Germanophone cultural shit (and yeah a chunk of them are Frankophone/Italophone/etc).

  18. #14078
    Discovered Stowaway Riddler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    About freaking time! It's really silly that they didn't already do this vote a long time ago.

  19. #14079

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?

    Northern Ireland will almost definitely be the last holdout in Western Europe.
    Since it's the most Eastern Europe part of Western Europe except for the not having communism thing.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Then again Switzerland, home of the "some cantons didn't have women's suffrage until the 90's" has a way with surprises.

  20. #14080

    Default Re: Random News Article Discussion II: is racism racist?


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