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Thread: One Piece 707: B Block

  1. #581

    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestSwordsman View Post
    Luffy doesn't have the same range as Reileigh or Shanks.
    Or Rayleigh and Shanks just have stronger CoC (because they're stronger than Luffy).

  2. #582

    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Or Rayleigh and Shanks just have stronger CoC (because they're stronger than Luffy).
    Which is why they have a wider range as well...




  3. #583
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    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Luffy knocked out the executioners at Marineford who were farther away from him than any of the Fishmen at the plaza.
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  4. #584

    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    its probably the ability to control it. its strength depends on his spirit(personal growth), with this he would knock out stronger guys, but the range is more control the ability.

  5. #585

    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestSwordsman View Post
    Which is why they have a wider range as well...
    Luffy's CoC range pre-timeskip:

    Spoiler:


    Luffy's CoC range post-timeskip:

    Spoiler:


    The range of the latter is definitely smaller.

    Did he become weaker during the timeskip?

  6. #586

    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Luffy's CoC range pre-timeskip:



    Luffy's CoC range post-timeskip:



    The range of the latter is definitely smaller.

    Did he become weaker during the timeskip?
    its not about range only, when he subconsciously used haki it was more aimed at the platform. while in the second one he used it over a whole area.

  7. #587
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    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Coc is so useless even caribou can survive coc

  8. #588
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    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Luffy's CoC range pre-timeskip:



    Luffy's CoC range post-timeskip:



    The range of the latter is definitely smaller.

    Did he become weaker during the timeskip?
    Obviously Not.
    The pre-timeskip was an action of unconsciously desperation that bring out his inner CoC. The post-timeskip was a little taste of controlled CoC. He didn't make any effort when he did it.
    Sorry for my ENG

  9. #589

    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanauta View Post
    its not about range only, when he subconsciously used haki it was more aimed at the platform. while in the second one he used it over a whole area.
    Aiming with CoC is something that requires training, as Oda stated at the end of the SBS answer he gave. At that point, that was only the 4th time Luffy had used CoC.

    How do you control a power you don't even know you have?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartolomeo View Post
    Obviously Not.
    The pre-timeskip was an action of unconsciously desperation that bring out his inner CoC. The post-timeskip was a little taste of controlled CoC. He didn't make any effort when he did it.
    It wasn't a serious question.

    Also, doesn't change the fact that Oda did state in the SBS that Shanks and Rayleigh could have knocked down all 100.000 Fishman there, implying Luffy's display of CoC wasn't exactly controlled (or else there would be no point in comparing).

  10. #590

    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Aiming with CoC is something that requires training, as Oda stated at the end of the SBS answer he gave. At that point, that was only the 4th time Luffy had used CoC.

    How do you control a power you don't even know you have?



    It wasn't a serious question.

    Also, doesn't change the fact that Oda did state in the SBS that Shanks and Rayleigh could have knocked down all 100.000 Fishman there, implying Luffy's display of CoC wasn't exactly controlled (or else there would be no point in comparing).
    like i said it was aimed at the platform(subconsciously), he doesnt have control over it(he cant activate it by will). when someone can fully use it, he can even exclude people(stated by oda).

  11. #591

    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanauta View Post
    like i said it was aimed at the platform(subconsciously), he doesnt have control over it(he cant activate it by will). when someone can fully use it, he can even exclude people(stated by oda).
    No, he used Haki subconsciously. Without control, CoC just indiscriminately hits the area around the user. Aiming with CoC is something that requires training with it.

    It's more obvious during the fight between Luffy and the Boa Sisters, where random crowd members all around the arena were fainting even though Luffy wasn't aiming at them.
    Last edited by King Cannon; April 26th, 2013 at 06:36 PM.

  12. #592

    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    I would like to remind you about this thread

    General 'Haki' Discussion

  13. #593
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    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    I'm with Cannon, and I don't believe it gets weaker, there's just an area where it hits you and one in where it does not

  14. #594
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    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanauta View Post
    like i said it was aimed at the platform(subconsciously), he doesnt have control over it(he cant activate it by will). when someone can fully use it, he can even exclude people(stated by oda).
    I'm with Cannon, If it was aimed at the platform like you said, why did some fodders got hit by it, the only ones down should be the ones at the platforms and not all the fodders around luffy as well, we saw how Rayleigh handle those guys back in SA, he only excluded the SHs then everybody got hit by it, that's control, you cannot control something that you don't even know you have to begging with...

  15. #595
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    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    It is easily feasible that Luffy subconsciously activated his Haki in that moment at Marineford in a away that was directly aimed at the two on the platform. While a precise aiming of CoC needs training, a subconscious use of CoC, depending on the need and circumstance, could result in varied uses of CoC, it doesn't always have to be the same uncontrolled massive AoE.

  16. #596

    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    Luffy's CoC range pre-timeskip:



    Luffy's CoC range post-timeskip:



    The range of the latter is definitely smaller.

    Did he become weaker during the timeskip?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanauta View Post
    like i said it was aimed at the platform(subconsciously), he doesnt have control over it(he cant activate it by will). when someone can fully use it, he can even exclude people(stated by oda).
    Think I have to agree with Hanuta. Even if you look at those pics you posted, actually especially from them, if you notice, the indication of haki, CoC haki at least, seems to be that smoke/ wisp/ humidity/ w. e. you want to call it. If you look the smoke also seems to indicate direction of haki "effects", once again at least for CoC.
    In the FI example the smoke/ wisp/ humidity/ w. e. you want to call it goes everywhere outward, (with a limit of effect of course), from the center; But in the MF War pic, the smoke/ wisp/ humidity/ w. e. you want to call it, goes just forward primarily towards the platform, but forward none the less. In fact it even seems the very 'aimed' at the platform, (from the smoke consecutive waves leading directly over the platform), that your way kinda denies. Way it seems is that well look pre -TS == C ; Post TS === O.
    Basically if you start at the center of the O, but for pre -TS you start at the intersecting point of a imaginary straight vertical line directly connecting the 2 tips of the the edge of the C. Yes C seems more than O only when looking towards 1 general direction; C = west. but O still beats it in terms of totality.

    And it would be fair to include in the line of thinking basically Luffy bought this power up at that time from his core, and no offense to Margaret + friends, but I'm guessing saving Ace's life was even more important to Luffy than saving hers had been. Also Oda did a great job of showing both how desperate, and how focused Luffy was, on that 1 thing, especially; stopping the immediate execution of Ace. If his focus was only there, on that, wouldn't his unconscious aim also at least primarily be there. His hitting not only the platform area, but basically everything in front of him as well on the way/ path to the platform area, still very well shows how raw, and untrained, yet powerful indication of his potential, (hmmn... somewhat like Gohan in DBZ, every battle before he actually realized his full potential, still showing output of what his power would eventually be), and the thing is he isn't fully mastered haki yet.

    If, not saying definitely, but "If" the range was bigger/ farther when Luffy was untrained it would still make sense, as that just means even with training, his very limited training, ( probably compared to most); he still had focused more on controlling the usage by connecting force of thought, and will and shaping the ability, not necessarily calling forth the higher peaks of his powers like he had desperately needed done during the war, in his mind, for that 1 purpose: "stopping the immediate execution of Ace".

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    No, he used Haki subconsciously. Without control, CoC just indiscriminately hits the area around the user. Aiming with CoC is something that requires training with it.
    It's more obvious during the fight between Luffy and the Boa Sisters, where random crowd members all around the arena were fainting even though Luffy wasn't aiming at them.
    Understood that what's "technically" said but I was thinking of a fitting illustration: When some1 stretches or yawns both after, or even before( but normally after) a good nap/ sleep/ rest; they can sometimes stretch while yawning unawares, farther then when actually stretching consciously for a purpose (babies would be a good example too as they're stretching pretty much always unconsciously, and basically to push the limits of their limbs/ and their world by extension) .
    Related to the example would be Luffy's CoC after being woken up, yes it would 'appear' to have a farther range, but since technically it was reduced to 1 direction, (as mentioned above), it can go further and still not necessarily be "farther than", or even equal the CoC from Luffy which attacks from Luffy, to Luffy's whole entire surrounding radius.




    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowgreed View Post
    I'm with Cannon, If it was aimed at the platform like you said, why did some fodders got hit by it, the only ones down should be the ones at the platforms and not all the fodders around luffy as well, we saw how Rayleigh handle those guys back in SA, he only excluded the SHs then everybody got hit by it, that's control, you cannot control something that you don't even know you have to begging with...
    We don't actually know if Rayleigh actually did exclude them for fact, just saying.
    But if he did, with his control, he literally spared specific people with his control; Yet Not a direction, necessarily. Meaning it's wide open to if more control of haki does what and in varying levels, and exactly what was Rayleigh aiming for in the 1st place. And I'd say, it's very possible to "control something that you don't even know you have to begin with". And as Hanauta's main point is, it would/ could be done unconsciously, subconsciously, instinctively, basically automatically, and or by pure chance of circumstances. Kind of like breathing, it's done no matter what (in a healthy child) from birth, but even if you don't necessarily "control it" since then also; you still adapt it to pretty much any situation, almost/ near perfectly without really thinking about it.

    Or yeah how Lady Lover put it.

  17. #597
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    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Quote Originally Posted by LUFFYSMC GEAR 2ZND View Post
    Think I have to agree with Hanuta. Even if you look at those pics you posted, actually especially from them, if you notice, the indication of haki, CoC haki at least, seems to be that smoke/ wisp/ humidity/ w. e. you want to call it. If you look the smoke also seems to indicate direction of haki "effects", once again at least for CoC.
    In the FI example the smoke/ wisp/ humidity/ w. e. you want to call it goes everywhere outward, (with a limit of effect of course), from the center; But in the MF War pic, the smoke/ wisp/ humidity/ w. e. you want to call it, goes just forward primarily towards the platform, but forward none the less. In fact it even seems the very 'aimed' at the platform, (from the smoke consecutive waves leading directly over the platform), that your way kinda denies. Way it seems is that well look pre -TS == C ; Post TS === O.
    Basically if you start at the center of the O, but for pre -TS you start at the intersecting point of a imaginary straight vertical line directly connecting the 2 tips of the the edge of the C. Yes C seems more than O only when looking towards 1 general direction; C = west. but O still beats it in terms of totality.

    And it would be fair to include in the line of thinking basically Luffy bought this power up at that time from his core, and no offense to Margaret + friends, but I'm guessing saving Ace's life was even more important to Luffy than saving hers had been. Also Oda did a great job of showing both how desperate, and how focused Luffy was, on that 1 thing, especially; stopping the immediate execution of Ace. If his focus was only there, on that, wouldn't his unconscious aim also at least primarily be there. His hitting not only the platform area, but basically everything in front of him as well on the way/ path to the platform area, still very well shows how raw, and untrained, yet powerful indication of his potential, (hmmn... somewhat like Gohan in DBZ, every battle before he actually realized his full potential, still showing output of what his power would eventually be), and the thing is he isn't fully mastered haki yet.

    If, not saying definitely, but "If" the range was bigger/ farther when Luffy was untrained it would still make sense, as that just means even with training, his very limited training, ( probably compared to most); he still had focused more on controlling the usage by connecting force of thought, and will and shaping the ability, not necessarily calling forth the higher peaks of his powers like he had desperately needed done during the war, in his mind, for that 1 purpose: "stopping the immediate execution of Ace".



    Understood that what's "technically" said but I was thinking of a fitting illustration: When some1 stretches or yawns both after, or even before( but normally after) a good nap/ sleep/ rest; they can sometimes stretch while yawning unawares, farther then when actually stretching consciously for a purpose (babies would be a good example too as they're stretching pretty much always unconsciously, and basically to push the limits of their limbs/ and their world by extension) .
    Related to the example would be Luffy's CoC after being woken up, yes it would 'appear' to have a farther range, but since technically it was reduced to 1 direction, (as mentioned above), it can go further and still not necessarily be "farther than", or even equal the CoC from Luffy which attacks from Luffy, to Luffy's whole entire surrounding radius.






    We don't actually know if Rayleigh actually did exclude them for fact, just saying.
    But if he did, with his control, he literally spared specific people with his control; Yet Not a direction, necessarily. Meaning it's wide open to if more control of haki does what and in varying levels, and exactly what was Rayleigh aiming for in the 1st place. And I'd say, it's very possible to "control something that you don't even know you have to begin with". And as Hanauta's main point is, it would/ could be done unconsciously, subconsciously, instinctively, basically automatically, and or by pure chance of circumstances. Kind of like breathing, it's done no matter what (in a healthy child) from birth, but even if you don't necessarily "control it" since then also; you still adapt it to pretty much any situation, almost/ near perfectly without really thinking about it.

    Or yeah how Lady Lover put it.
    As much as I enjoy the discussion, could we all please move this to the http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=19200 ? Thank you.
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  18. #598

    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Bellamy!! Wonder who this Ricky guy is Going with Bellamy winning the block since he went to Skypiea. Gives him automatic plot advantage.

  19. #599

    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Quote Originally Posted by Yung Flex View Post
    Bellamy!! Wonder who this Ricky guy is Going with Bellamy winning the block since he went to Skypiea. Gives him automatic plot advantage.
    Going to Skypiea doesn't grant anybody plot advantage, because Skypiea has nothing to do with the current arc.

    Bartolomeo and Ricky are the only ones there with actual plot advantage.
    Last edited by King Cannon; April 27th, 2013 at 10:13 AM.

  20. #600
    Bisoromi Bear Game And Guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece 707: B Block

    Yeah I think we heard you 900th time you mentioned that.

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