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Thread: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

  1. #101
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/01/15/andrew-sullivan-how-obama-s-long-game-will-outsmart-his-critics.html

    Some perspective on some of what the President has done in his first term in office. Thoughts? Agreements? Disagreements?
    It's been four years, so if anything it'd be nice to put into perspective the things he's failed on and the things he's delivered on.
    Because if there's anything I've learned when it comes to politics, is that people's memories are short.
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  2. #102
    POE WUN BGR Robby's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    MY COMPLETELY NOT INFORMED TAKE ON OBAMA.

    This is just listing what I've picked up from living day to day, without any major interest in following politics or the details. Everything I said is prone to being entirely wrong, factually incorrect, heresay, and is definitely uniformed. I'm well aware of that fact. Just stating what I *think* to be the case, as my general interest level and amount of stuff I've heard and retained about it is probably about the same as the average citizen, I'm sure there are other members on the board that follow this with keen interest and can do it way better and more insight.


    =He kept the country from going completely bankrupt. Had to pull out insane huge future loans to do, but it kept a depression from happening.

    =Started up a medical system that while unpopular, might be essential in the long run. Both a plus and a negative.

    +Didn't ban gay marriage and otherwise try to destroy civil liberties of those that are "different".

    =Aided in a small war, but only superficially and it was over in a few months.

    +Got us out of another war we've been in for 9 years.

    +Doesn't look like a complete idiot every time he's on tv, the rest of the world likes him better than the previous guy.

    +Killed Bin Laden with his bare hands.

    +No 9/11 or major hurricane disasters on his watch

    -Failed to close down Guantanomo.

    -Balooned the deficit hugely. To the point its in numbers in the trillions that we can't even fathom its so huge.

    -Spent more vacation time than Bush did.

    -Signed a law that will gives presidents ridiculous power, even if he doesn't choose to use it.

    And other stuff, but those are the points I can think of without actually looking anywhere, so that's what I get from general osmosis and the Daily Show, (which should not be my only source of news, and yet, it is.) so thats probably about as informed as most people my age are, however right or wrong that information may be, and whatever else he may or may not have done. It might be unfair to count what he DIDN'T do as a positive (No gay marriage bans) but given the other side is all for that and would have guaranteed pushed for it, well... it should count. I'm not sure what he's done for education at all, but I know that No Child Left Behind was a horrendous poorly conceived abomination that has completely screwed schools up.

    He's not done great, but given he started in an incredibly bad spot, and congress has been hostile the entire way. He made a lot of promises he couldn't keep, but thats the reality of the world. Its easy to say "Yes, we should close down this torturing prison", but... there's realities behind it that pure idealism can't deal with. He really should do better without re-election to worry about though.
    Last edited by Robby; April 8th, 2012 at 05:29 PM.

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  3. #103
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    -Balooned the deficit hugely. To the point its in numbers in the trillions that we can't even fathom its so huge.
    Which can't be blamed on Obama as the bulk of the debt increase is directly due to the Bush era tax cuts and the twin wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.



    -Spent more vacation time than Bush did.
    Obama has taken roughly a third as many vacation days as Bush did at a similar point in his presidency.

    -Signed a law that will gives presidents ridiculous power, even if he doesn't choose to use it.
    It was also passed by a margin that guaranteed that a veto would be overridden so passing it and killing it via signing statement was the only real way to get rid of it.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  4. #104
    POE WUN BGR Robby's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    I'm going to edit my previous post just a little to emphasize the fact that I'm completely uninformed on this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    Which can't be blamed on Obama as the bulk of the debt increase is directly due to the Bush era tax cuts and the twin wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    http://crooksandliars.com/files/vfs/...lic%20debt.jpg
    Yeah, I'd assumed that was the case, but the number is out there, and that number is going to be thrown out a lot, regardless of who is actually responsible for it.

    Obama has taken roughly a third as many vacation days as Bush did at a similar point in his presidency.
    I totally believe this. But the other "fact" gets thrown around. By people that dislike him and make up facts and hope people won't check them, I assume.

    It was also passed by a margin that guaranteed that a veto would be overridden so passing it and killing it via signing statement was the only real way to get rid of it.
    Yeah, I recall that being the case too.

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  5. #105
    Power of a hippo! Kaba Kaba Fruit's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King
    Little countries/little populations (that goes for you Canada!) wouldn't understand how things like this work.
    Not cool, Monkey. I'm Canadian and I can speak from personal experience that we follow American politics just as closely as you guys. Regardless of what happens in the U.S., it does affect us here too.

  6. #106
    Depraved Prince of AP Monkey King's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaba Kaba Fruit View Post
    Not cool, Monkey. I'm Canadian and I can speak from personal experience that we follow American politics just as closely as you guys. Regardless of what happens in the U.S., it does affect us here too.
    I'm saying you probably don't understand why Santorum exists, not that it doesn't effect you. The vastness of a population our size, and one so spread about, and what sort of wild schizophrenia that creates among other things.
    You can understand it better than a Lithuanian obviously, since Canada does at least have the size side down. But I mean shit, your entire countries population is comparable to only just New England plus New York state. That's seven states, three of which have low population and most of which are small.
    You may look at a map and think Canada must be similar demographically to the US, but it absolutely isn't.

    Brazil, Russia, Indonesia, China, India, these are countries that the US can nod to in the hallway in mutual understanding. They know how it be.

    "Yo Indonesia, man what up with Aceh."
    "Shit man, you know how them pious cats are. Crazier than 50 west Papuans in a Sulawesi tour bus scoping the mosques and churches next to eachother."
    "Hey everyone, Canada here, the Maritimes are pretty.....old fashioned kind of a little bit! Heh..heh...those guys."

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    =Aided in a small war, but only superficially and it was over in a few months.
    +Aided in a just conflict, winning us much needed regional brownie points with minimal financial and zero human loss on our side (only non Libyan to die was a British army guy killed ina traffic accident in Italy lol). And the conflict was successful.

    - Has been slow to follow up on securing stability in the aftermath more readily.

  7. #107

    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    You might also add:
    + Obama Ends Stem Cell Research Ban
    Everyone who doesn't back down from crazy people to support medicinal progress is cool in my book. I don't live in the US, but that was really great to me.
    "medical miracles do not happen simply by accident"


  8. #108
    Must've been rats Sakonosolo's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    I don't understand the stigma against stem cells. Of course I also don't know much about it in general. From what I always hear about it it sounds like they're killing children to get those stem cells but I can't imagine that's the case.
    In the wrong light everything is chance
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  9. #109
    POE WUN BGR Robby's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakonosolo View Post
    I don't understand the stigma against stem cells. Of course I also don't know much about it in general. From what I always hear about it it sounds like they're killing children to get those stem cells but I can't imagine that's the case.
    Thats what religious nuts would have you think.

    Its discarded material from fertilization treatments. Stuff that would just be thrown away *anyway*. It's not even aborted. It isn't fertilized, it isn't life, and theres nothing wrong with researching cures from it.

    Unless you want to make the argument that every woman on the planet is a murderer once a month.

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  10. #110

    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post

    Unless you want to make the argument that every woman on the planet is a murderer once a month.
    Wasn't this Santorum's running platform basically?

  11. #111

    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    I'm an independant, so in all honesty I don't give a crap until election day and even then I'm rather apathetic about it.
    All I know is I don't want Obama back :P
    New candidate plz

    I'll probably end up voting Republican though. My dad always held a deep respect for Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich both. My dad was an avid history and was extremely well read on current events as well. He often praised Newt Gingrich as one of the most intellegent men in regards to politics and Mitt Romney was brilliant with finances.
    If they'd stop fighting in their debates and team up, there'd be potential for awesome happenings. (especially in regard to the national debt, I'd wager)
    Quote Originally Posted by Drake_Cloud View Post
    He didn't come back because he thought he could win, he came back because he's a goddamn hero and that's what heroes do.


  12. #112
    Depraved Prince of AP Monkey King's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mokenda_mint View Post
    I'm an independant, so in all honesty I don't give a crap until election day and even then I'm rather apathetic about it.
    All I know is I don't want Obama back :P
    New candidate plz

    I'll probably end up voting Republican though. My dad always held a deep respect for Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich both. My dad was an avid history and was extremely well read on current events as well. He often praised Newt Gingrich as one of the most intellegent men in regards to politics and Mitt Romney was brilliant with finances.
    If they'd stop fighting in their debates and team up, there'd be potential for awesome happenings. (especially in regard to the national debt, I'd wager)
    Newt Gingrich is a uneducated buffoon. Sorry.
    I mean this is the guy who said Palestinians didn't exist and followed this up with basically shoohanding ethnic cleansing as not a big deal because the victims can go other places.
    That's not just ignorance, it's dangerous ignorance that shouldn't be in office.

    If Turkey decided to finish the job and invaded South Cyprus too, by Newt Gingrich's own logic it wouldn't be a real problem that Chrissie would be evicted and turned into a refugee.
    Why?
    Because Cypriots are an "invented people", and they have a Greece they can go to.

  13. #113
    Cocky Curry Turtle~ Wooden_Giraffe's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    Are "Cypriots" what people are called in Cyprus? Maybe it's just me but that sounds awesome. Cyprus totally just jumped up a lot on my "Coolest Countries List"

  14. #114
    Depraved Prince of AP Monkey King's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden_Giraffe View Post
    Are "Cypriots" what people are called in Cyprus? Maybe it's just me but that sounds awesome. Cyprus totally just jumped up a lot on my "Coolest Countries List"
    Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots are the ethnic groups, and of course regardless of who they are....the nationality is Cypriot.
    And already the north half of the island was ethnically cleansed of Greeks (and the Turks fled the south). Chrissie's own father was a victim of ethnic cleansing, he lived in Famagusta. Look at what side of the border that's on now.

  15. #115
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    I remeber reading a couple years back about there being a North Cyprus that considered themselves a seperate nation from the rest of the island but only Turkey recognized them. Never looked into much after that, shame to hear it had already gotten that far as to go through "ethnic cleansing".

  16. #116
    POE WUN BGR Robby's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    +Aided in a just conflict, winning us much needed regional brownie points with minimal financial and zero human loss on our side (only non Libyan to die was a British army guy killed ina traffic accident in Italy lol). And the conflict was successful.

    - Has been slow to follow up on securing stability in the aftermath more readily.
    See, these are th sorts of things that I actually know and understand, and remember clearly once I hear a sentence or two talking about it, but without stopping to spend time to think on the issue or ask around or internet hop, it doesn't come to me immediately and only the vague overview of the whole thing is there.

    Alas, this is worldwide political mindset in general.

    It's just hard to get motivated into caring or paying attention when I already decided who I was going to vote for months and months ago, and barring some crazy super scandal going down, I'm not really going to be swayed one way or the other.

    Also the entire reason I did that list off the top of my head complete with disclaimer.

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  17. #117
    ウサギ joekido the Second's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    Obama is not popular, I doubt he'll win. He need to go because so many people lost thirty jobs because of him

  18. #118
    POE WUN BGR Robby's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by joekido the Second View Post
    Obama is not popular, I doubt he'll win. He need to go because so many people lost thirty jobs because of him
    Care to list some reasons why he's not popular? You don't need to do any research, just off the top of your head. it's what I did.

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  19. #119
    Depraved Prince of AP Monkey King's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden_Giraffe View Post
    I remeber reading a couple years back about there being a North Cyprus that considered themselves a seperate nation from the rest of the island but only Turkey recognized them. Never looked into much after that, shame to hear it had already gotten that far as to go through "ethnic cleansing".
    It went down in 1974 actually. Things are peaceful today, though Turkey proper is still being a big dick.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by joekido the Second View Post
    Obama is not popular, I doubt he'll win. He need to go because so many people lost thirty jobs because of him
    The problem with Obama and the economy isn't that he caused the crash, no one lost jobs because of him. It's his management in trying to get OUT of the economic slump that people are unimpressed by. Being as he's the head of state and all, if things can't improve enough during his tenure the buck stops at him. That's where his poll numbers are suffering. There is actually recovery finally showing, real recovery. But problem now is that it's a really slow one so Obama is far from out of the woods on his main issue with voters.

  20. #120
    Aspiring Film Critic TLC's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2012 Presidential Election Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    Thats what religious nuts would have you think.

    Its discarded material from fertilization treatments. Stuff that would just be thrown away *anyway*. It's not even aborted. It isn't fertilized, it isn't life, and theres nothing wrong with researching cures from it.

    Unless you want to make the argument that every woman on the planet is a murderer once a month.
    I kill 20 million people a week according to that argument.

    But seriously, this whole aversion to stem cell research based on the most unscientific and misguided of fundamentalist logic is just obscenely stupid. Especially given the dieseases it can cure like Parkinson's or cancer or...you know...let paralyzed people walk again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silence View Post
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/01/15/andrew-sullivan-how-obama-s-long-game-will-outsmart-his-critics.html

    Some perspective on some of what the President has done in his first term in office. Thoughts? Agreements? Disagreements?
    It's been four years, so if anything it'd be nice to put into perspective the things he's failed on and the things he's delivered on.
    Because if there's anything I've learned when it comes to politics, is that people's memories are short.
    A very interesting article that totally gave me a new perspective on Obama. He HAS to win now (and he probably will, I doubt anyone even wants to vote for Romney).

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobjr View Post
    Wasn't this Santorum's running platform basically?
    Santorum's running platform is women can go screw themselves. Funnily enough, Gingrich's platform is he wants to screw the women.
    Last edited by TLC; April 9th, 2012 at 03:15 PM.
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