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Thread: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

  1. #9281
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    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post

    Specially if you compare her with Bernadette, who goes from "ha ha" to "oh poor child please let me protect you".


    With Lysithea, I have to touch another hornest nest that is Cyril, and why I enjoyed his character (can't remember), but it was related on how he and Shamir were foreigners in a point in my life where I felt the most foreign in my life and related to them a lot. His and Lysithea supports were cute, where she reaches out as a "big sister"/menthor, instead of denying that she is the youngest time and again in her usual supports.
    My issue is that the game tends to jump back and forth between these two positions. Once you got Benedetta's B support, that should have been it and the jokes should have stopped, but the game still liked to have fun with her being socially awkward (it's made worse by the fact that Byleth tends to gain supports faster than the others, so you get things like Ingrid breaking down her door or that bit where you try to lure her out with cake; yeah, this is a problem endemic to the series since 6). I liked the character, but this never sat well with me

  2. #9282

    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    I can't blame the game for me getting a C support after another one's B or A support.
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  3. #9283

    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    I think the idea is that Marianne actually believes she murdered her parents, even though she never explicitly says it. We know her father also bore the Crest, but the fact he also disappeared along with her mother suggests it was not him who killed her but instead someone else who killed both.

    It is a bit absurd set compared to Bernadetta's abusive parents, but I think believing she murdered her parents in a lycanthrope-like episode is enough reason for one to see her life as a curse and keep everyone at an arm's length.
    Also, her notion was not alleviated by anyone before. We are led to believe anyone up to that point who knew of the Crest also believed in the curse, so it was not something treated as a superstition. Actually, a Crest scholar has been following her since her parents' disappearance convinced of that very fact.


    Anyways, leaving her silly background behind, I think what matters about her is where the led us. She could easily by an annoying "moe" character, shying away from others while trying to get noticed by senpai, but the truth is that she genuinely wants others to leave her alone. In her support with Byleth she even confesses before the timeskip her daily devout religious routine actually had as a basis literally praying to die. Her devotion is one of her main traits and then we find out what moved her and covered every waking minute of her days was the hope she could maybe just be allowed to die. And this is not done in a meme sort of way, but in a serious way of someone who simply can't stand living through days anymore. She was the very image of debilitating depression: lost and finding herself unworthy, so engulfed by self-pity she couldn't even take action in that direction, just being carried through her days by force of inertia hoping next day war will do its job.
    It is not a revolutionary take on characters, I'm sure a ton like that exist around, but is definitely the sort of character you can root for. I really like her supports in which you can see it is an active effort, almost painful, for her to let others make her realize she is worthy something, that being alive is not a burden to carry. Her support with Ignatz is really good in this sense.
    Last edited by .access timeco.; May 25th, 2020 at 05:39 PM.

  4. #9284

    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    I don't know how many supports you did for Lysithea but I'm not sure what's so hard to get about her. Yes her plight is magical in nature, but I'm not sure how that makes it hard to empathize; you could replace "I have two crests" with "I have a terminal illness." The fact is her life expectancy is in the twenties, so she feels she has to work 10 times harder than everyone else to accomplish her goals and make a difference in life before it's too late. It's a huge burden she carries with her, but she doesn't sob and dwell on the fact that she's going to die young, nor on the fact that she was essentially tortured and experimented on to give her that second crest. She is fiercely determined to make the most of the life she has, which is why she is kind of biased against people who don't work hard or appreciate what they have.

    It's also why she hates being treated like a child; not only did she never have a real childhood but she doesn't feel she can afford it, and she wants to be recognized for legitimately being a super hard worker with tons of talent. So she constantly feels she has to prove herself to her peers, especially since she is significantly younger than most of them. But then she does have somewhat childish traits which are the source of a lot of the lighter interactions around her -- her obsession with sweets and fear of ghosts come to mind. It's really hilarious to see people like Claude give her crap for it, or see her trying to outright deny those things without success. At the same time it fleshes her out as someone who really does want/need to have some of her childhood, despite feeling she had to grow up too fast.

    It's also really obvious she cares about others and makes time to help them despite everything. As long as they take it (and her) seriously. So yeah, like everyone she has some flaws, but at worst she comes off as kinda bratty when you know nothing about her. I find her pretty relatable to be honest. And it's really great how Lindhardt, essentially her polar opposite, ends up being the one who feels for her plight and... well, without spoilers, the two have a pretty good ending if they end up together.

    (And yes she's a beast in combat and that never hurts)

    Edit: there's also the cool fact that she's a noble but, certainly in part due to her situation, she is all about merit and thus despises the way nobility defines society and relates to people based on who they are. She doesn't care at all about House Ordelia.
    Last edited by Foolio; May 25th, 2020 at 08:40 PM.

  5. #9285
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    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    Lysithea is sort of like Felix in the sense that they can sometimes be assholes to other people in some of their earlier supports, but after getting to know them you realize they have understandable reasons for how they came to act that way and honestly do care about the people around them. In Lysithea's case you can see her trying to connect with the other students as she gets to know them, like admitting to Rapheal that she can be prideful and short-tempered, apologizing to Leonie after criticizing her training methods, and making a conscious effort to be nicer to Ignatz after realizing she was being a little too harsh and judgemental.


    Also, her supports with Felix are hilarious. “Cake is not a ‘sweet.’ Cake is the divine essence of the heavens!”


    Quote Originally Posted by Foolio View Post
    And it's really great how Linhardt, essentially her polar opposite, ends up being the one who feels for her plight and... well, without spoilers, the two have a pretty good ending if they end up together.

    Ooh, yes, definitely this. A serious contender for best support chain in the game for me. Lin may seem apathetic and self-centered, but he can be really good at understanding and connecting with other people.

  6. #9286

    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    What Foolio says is pretty much why I like Lysithea and resonated with her instantly, even before learning other aspects about her like the nobility side and the reason behind her white hair and other things.

    To me what is weird is having relatively inoffensive characters like Marianne and Lysithea in F-tier. I personally didn't care much for Marianne myself but that's about it, it never pushed her to an unlikable tier. Particularly when other characters exist whose intent is to be grating at first, like Ferdinand and Lorenz.
    That Hilda, Dimitri, Hubert and other units I find fantastic got rated low tells me it's just a difference in taste, but to me it's still odd to dismiss Marianne and Lysithea as unlikable and not worth further attention because of having "unrelatable conditions" that are really just having had really terrible experiences. Winds up looking like a double-standard that other people get to be completely insensitive dipshits but it's ok, but the girls were bratty and distant so they are clearly terrible.
    I also don't buy the reasoning of shitty supports when Marianne has excellent trees with Raphael and Hilda, and Lysithea has ton of excellent conversations as well as reasonable development in all routes. So really, I guess it's just difference in taste so I doubt I can sway the opinion much.
    Personally I don't think any character outside of maybe Cyrill would make the F tier for me, and that's mainly because they did him dirty by making him unnecessarily creepy in his obsession with Rhea. I also personally despise Lorenz but at least I can respect he gets some more character development.

    edit: lol, confused my golden deer students. Sorry Ignatz, you're a golden dear.
    Last edited by Noqanky; May 25th, 2020 at 08:49 PM. Reason: jebus, and how is Ingrid so low? She cannot be more wholesome

  7. #9287

    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    Made a tier list unit wise for fun :P


    S-Tier: The Three Lords and Byleth are by far the best units in the game with the best stat growth and stuff, Edelgard and Claude imo are the best because Edelgard gets a spammable galeforce and Claudes final class is great alose fem Byleth is greater just due to the female clases.

    A- tier: best recrutibale students Lysithea is by far the strongest mage user but you need to watch out as she is a glass canon, Petra is the best melee focused character and taking her into classes like Peagsus knight and Falcon you better watch out as she can crit and dodge, Felix is male Petra in terms of stats and stuff but not the same level of build variety, Bern is the best archer bar Claude and Hunter Volley should kill any unit in her path and Jeritza is the best mounted unit.

    B-Tier: Hubert is the best mage bar Lys while he may not be able to outdamage her but Hubbie can take more hits and has better range if Ly isn't using Lorenz family weapon thing, Mercedes is the best healer in the game, Hilda is strong and great but in alot of ways is a poor womens/lesser Edelgard but in Golden Deer thats fine, Ingrid is well the prototypical Pegasus knight, Dorothea is kinda a jack of all trades when it comes to magic but as a trickster she is better then even Yuri, Constance is alot like Lys but even weaker when it comes to taking hits but bolting is great long range, Ferd is the best noble boy in the cast along with having the stat growth that I think fits better for a Great Knight, Lin is the second best healer and a better mage unit then Mercedes, Hapi while better then Blue haired girl and lesser then the last two she does have her crest that lets her not use a magic charge.

    D-Tier: Might as well say Church recruits cause IMO they are the worst units in the game, Steeth the best of the group is just a poor Ferd

  8. #9288
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    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    I'll break down my tier list a bit to give an idea of my thought process.

    S tier were people that I just fell in love with. They were charming and I looked forward to every interaction I had with them. Dedue, Sylvain and Bernadetta all have good depth to them and I felt invested in picking apart those characters and understanding them. Raphael is a big exception since he's very singular, but he's so positive and charismatic and his presence brings out the best in everyone he has supports with. These four I really loved.

    A tier are ones that were pretty close to that, just weren't the favorite of the favorites. They all hit some combination of understandable, deep and charming, and what separates them from S tier is either a preference or a slight deficiency in any of those qualities. Linhardt is cute, bi and interesting points of view, but lacks depth, for example.

    B tier characters are characters that I think are weaker and lacking something, but I still found some aspects that stuck out positively. Claude is a charming, idealistic trickster who never gets to shine because he's tertiary to the game's story.

    C tier characters are mostly bland, but pleasant. Lorenz is more abrasive than the rest, but saves himself by the end. Ignatz doesn't have much going for him, but he's a sweetie. I'm mildly positive on all of these.

    Dimitri I put in his own category because he's a special case. I genuinely like him when he's not being an edgelord for being this dorky kindly royal type. I appreciate the gist of the arc that he goes through and he has a decent amount of depth to him. I just think the game stumbled catastrophically on execution. His edgelord mode feels so disconnected from his portrayal before and after (not that I don't understand the story reason, but he feels like a completely different character), and the forces that bring him in and out of that mode felt sudden and clumsy. He would be in A tier, except that his arc is so unbalanced that he frustrates me overall as a character.

    E tier are characters that I felt nothing about. I can understand why people might like Hilda, but she does nothing for me as a character. Hubert is discount Oberstein (from Legend of the Galactic Heroes) and if you took away his schemes and devotion there would be nothing left. Ingrid I used extensively in AM as a flier unit and despite that I still forgot who she was by the end of the game. She has some personality here and there, and while I like her masculine energy, her story is pretty weak, she's a bit of a killjoy and I don't like her treatment of Sylvain. Still I don't hate her, I just find her pretty boring.

    F tier are characters that I just found unpleasant. Marianne and Lysithea have some story and depth to them, but I found them noticeably grating. In the middle of my VW run, I found myself reluctant to go through Lysithea's supports because I just didn't want to listen to her anymore. With Marianne, I found myself wanting to intentionally give her bad advice when she had questions. There's definitely a part of it that is just me finding these personality types frustrating, but same with Lorenz at first. I've gone through all but a small handful of supports for each (mostly just missing the churchie supports and a couple loose ends outside their main houses), and with a few exceptions I find their supports really samey and bringing out the worst in other characters. Unlike Lorenz, I don't think either of them grow meaningfully by the end of the game.

    I'd be happy to explain any character placements more in depth if you're interested. To summarize, though, I'm rating characters on enjoyability, mostly motivated by a combination of depth, quality of supports, personality and growth.

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  9. #9289

    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    I unfortunately have never gotten around to picking it back up to do Dimitri's house, and can't imagine myself doing it. Too many other things to get through.

    My list breakdown would probably only have 4 tiers. Favorites, Liked, Neutral, and Disliked.

    Dimitri and most of his class would be in Neutral since I ignored most of them for a future playthrough (except Felix), as well as most of the Church characters since they're pretty blah (except Hanneman and Flayn). And the Dislikes would only really be Caspar and Hilda... maybe Edelgard.

    Long live Bernie, Marianne, Lysithia, Lynhardt, Claude, and Lorenz though. Honorable mention Felix, but he's too low on the Navarre chart to be a favorite. I used him more as a unit than him being a favorite.

  10. #9290

    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    I just saw the tiermaker still had my choices saved from almost an year ago, when I dropped the game unintentionally (I didn't meant to drop it, just to go back at it tomorrow, then tomorrow, then...)

    So this was after I finished one Golden Deer playthrough and was around 40% of my Blue Lions. Didn't got to the point I could recruit Gilbert, so he is not tiered. Same for Edelgard and Hubert.

    This is based solely on them as characters, not as units (honestly, I think any unit can be impossibly strong with enough effort):



    Lorenz is def my #1 and also one of my favorites in the entire franchise, close enough to my golden duo. Marianne is almost as high, making 3H the only Fire Emblem game to have two characters among my absolute favorites.

  11. #9291

    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    Wags I think if I type my full thoughts it'll be massive walls of text but suffice it to say I just really personally disagree about a lot. Obviously it's a personal thing of who resonates with you but to me it just feels odd. Partly because a lot of your explanations involving character development/growth feel one-sided. Like, as much as I disagree with access timeco, his tier list still feels more "consistent" to me, if that makes any sense. Also probably just a coincidence but in ways feels weirdly biased against part of the female cast. Anyway, just to take a few examples to compare and contrast:

    Lorenz is, for me, pretty much insufferable to me the entire game, and even at the end when he "redeems" himself he's just now insufferable while agreeing to support Claude. Okay, maybe you find that somehow endearing or justified because progress happened. I won't go into another Lorenz-bashing spree lol. But to say other characters come even close in terms of initial abrasiveness or that they fall short of him in terms of final development makes no sense to me. I think the closest for me in terms of being initially off-put is Hilda (not counting Cyril whom I always hated; the next after that would probably be Felix). She was just so annoying and selfish and has that whiny voice and I hated it and ignored her entirely for the first run (which was BE so I'm not sure she was even recruitable to begin with). But after the GD run I actually ended up liking her pretty well? Unlike Felix who just became somewhat tolerable. I'll admit that a decent part of that is her hilarious battle quotes and the incongruity of her "don't send a frail little girl to battle!" excuse with the way she's an unstoppable monster who bashes people in the face with a giant axe. But she also just becomes legitimately sympathetic in the way she's afraid of trying hard because she might find out she's not good enough, or not be able to live up to her war hero brother, and all that stuff. She gets called out hard on the laziness facade. Plus you know, she's into arts and crafts, not war.

    Moving on, I think Sylvain is pretty much only interesting because of his interactions with Ingrid, which also flesh her out a good deal. They are quite deliberately designed as another pair of opposites; a dichotomy; kind of like Lindhardt and Lysithea but to an even greater extent. Except that I would say Sylvain is the less developed of them; sure we get some insight to his situation and it's reasonably relatable (and I can definitely see ways in which he would click for you in particular), especially the part about family expectations as a crest bearer etc. - even despite him being kind of an ass (and Ingrid feeling she has to clean up his messes). But I don't recall him really changing much. Whereas Ingrid is definitely a little uptight given her driving motivations of duty and family honor, but she gets a ton of development and it's super unfair to dismiss her as a killjoy. She has an absolutely adorable support line with Ashe, as well as other characters where she is legitimately challenged to give into girly whims or to lighten up by Master Troll Claude, let alone address her family dilemma and past marriage. She makes honest efforts in all aspects.

    To pick one more, I like Bernadetta and all but I honestly think Marianne is the better of the two in terms of timidity etc. This might sound mean but Bernie is kind of like the Usopp of this game. Gets a LOT of time dedicated to her reclusive nature and the reasons for it, and trying to help her get past them, only for the game to constantly throw it out the window and play it for a joke later. "Oh look she's all grown up! I can't wait to see how cool she is now after the timesk- oh, never mind." I get why she's appealing to people and hey I like her too, but they do her dirty as a character. I'll take Marianne's characterization and personal arc over that any time. At least Marianne fully confronts her issues, and even before then has her friendship with Hilda and her love of animals to give her expression (and oh god that support line with Raphael haha).

    Oh and calling Claude tertiary to the story is also kind of a big insult but whatever. Sure he's the only house leader not actively instigating global war, but he's also got his hand in almost every event that transpires and has overwhelmingly the most support lines with other characters, at least to my recollection. He has a vision, personal motivations, and I'm not sure what more you could want outside of scrapping the entire theme of his cunning and tactical prowess and having to constantly play at a disadvantage. Meanwhile Dedue is a total one-note "must follow my savior" character. I don't dislike him; he has interesting supports surrounding his cooking and slowly opening up as an actual human (especially to Annette <3), but overall boy is his one-dimensional.

  12. #9292
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    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    Claude is tertiary to the plot, though? He has no personal stakes in either of the game's main conflicts (Edelgard's war and the Agarthans' plot), besides surviving the existential threats they pose. I'd argue that it doesn't make sense for him to be in conflict with Edelgard at all, considering they have similar ideals. Hell, Claude is more invested in scrutinizing the church, but for some reason he's adamant about saving Rhea (I think the in-story explanation is that he wants some answers, but I'm sure he could have gotten those by siding with the empire). His personal ambitions and character conflicts fall to the side against the whole plot of the game. We never really see him struggle to lead the alliance as an outsider, or butt heads with factions over his likely unpopular ideals. He just sort of becomes the de facto leader and gets out of having an arc.

    I think overall, each character has a hook, and what makes a difference to me is how deep that goes, who they are outside that, where it takes them and how much I like the base character.I can see how each one has something to them where I can see how they would like them. The more I think about most characters, the more I can find something about them to enjoy (except Marianne).

    To kinda quickly blast through your comments, Lorenz I pretty much agree with you on, I'm not super invested in him C tier is the most subject to change, but because I like smug douches who turn out to be good-hearted, he advances a few places. Hilda suffers partly from my own misplaced expectations that she would be more interesting since she is supposed to be the Dedue/Hilbert equivalent, but she turns out to have no particular connection to Claude besides scheming. Otherwise her character hook doesn't get me. Felix is complex to unravel and I think the tension between his good/thoughtful nature and his disillusioned misanthropy is well-written and engaging. Sylvain seems to be pretty well discussed in the fandom, but I find him pretty fascinating and multi-faceted. Ingrid's a narc and as much as I wanted to like her straightforward more masculine personality, Leonie does it better, and I don't find her personal conflict interesting (she and Ignatz have similar arcs, but Ignatz is a lot more pleasant). Between Bernadetta and Marianne, I don't think either of their relationships to trauma is more or less realistic. Benie does revert sometimes, but there isn't really an off switch for trauma and she clearly is doing the work to be more functional. And Marianne is realistic in the sense that some people never actively seek help and are infuriatingly passive and self-effacing. It is also realistic to have no hobbies, talents, desires or personality. That all just makes her realistically boring. To clarify on Lysithea, I find her less boring than Marianne as a character, but I dislike her supports way more. I completely disagree on Dedue being one note. I get that that's his first impression, but he is a very complex and conflicted character who had all his intricacies beaten down into him by the prejudices against him. Those parts of him are still there past the surface, and they come out through both the story and the game.

    There are some things I agree with you on. I do love Ingrid and Ashe's support, and that's the one that had me most invested in her. And the more I consider Hilda, the more I flip flop between putting her bottom of C tier instead of top of E tier (D tier isn't exactly in the middle but kind of its own thing because of my strong ambivalence towards Dimitri). As much as I am negative on a bunch of characters, I do appreciate seeing the reasons for liking them, since it shows that none of these characters are so bad as to be both fully unrelatable and uninteresting. Even Marianne, I could see how people would connect with her and want to see her grow. Some of them just work better than others.

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  13. #9293

    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    I'd forgotten about Cyril so I guess I have 1 more tier of characters for 3 Houses.

    The "I dislike this character so much that I'm actively struggling to not intentionally kill them off." tier. Only Arthur and him have ever made it into that tier...

  14. #9294
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    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    Here's my tier list based only on character, as this was my fire FE game and there was absolutely no way I was playing optimally with anyone or anything, lol.
    The insides of the tiers are in no particular order except for my fav, the one and only Ferdinand von Aegir.







    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    Claude is tertiary to the plot, though? He has no personal stakes in either of the game's main conflicts (Edelgard's war and the Agarthans' plot), besides surviving the existential threats they pose. I'd argue that it doesn't make sense for him to be in conflict with Edelgard at all, considering they have similar ideals. Hell, Claude is more invested in scrutinizing the church, but for some reason he's adamant about saving Rhea (I think the in-story explanation is that he wants some answers, but I'm sure he could have gotten those by siding with the empire).
    I disagree with this part. Yes, Claude may not have had personal ties to Edelgard or the Agarthans prior to the start of the game, but their actions get in the way of his own dreams and what he wants to achieve in Fodlan. Not siding with Edelgard even though he has almost the same goals as her (and their battle dialogue even points that out) is probably a byproduct of his route and the Church route being made as almost exact copies of one another, but story-wise, because of her role in part one, I think it's understandable why he doesn't trust her. Plus, since he's connected to Byleth, the temporary leader of the Church post-timeskip, he can make use of their military power for himself and reforming things from the inside is a better option than working with Edelgard if she really was the one behind everything pre-timeskip. (We as the player know the whole truth, but Claude doesn't.)

    If anything, it's not explained why he believes the Church is lying about Fodlan's history in the first place. The Church's version of history being true or not doesn't have much to do with Foldan's current status as an isolationist country.

    His personal ambitions and character conflicts fall to the side against the whole plot of the game.
    They do get a ton of attention if you're playing Golden Deer, especially after the timeskip where he talks to Byleth multiple times about the 'New Dawn,' as he calls it, and tells his classmates about opening the country's borders after Nader shows up, like bringing up how they met a lot of people from different backgrounds at Garreg Mach. He may not be super important when he shows up in other routes, but you could argue the same for other characters like Dmitri in non-Blue Lions routes or most unrecruited students.


    We never really see him struggle to lead the alliance as an outsider, or butt heads with factions over his likely unpopular ideals. He just sort of becomes the de facto leader and gets out of having an arc.
    Claude is hiding the fact that he's an outsider, tho. He'd never be accepted as Head of House Reagan if the other Alliance lords knew where he was from. His first support with Lorenz is all about how he seemingly popped up out of nowhere with his Crest. The first half of Golden Wind is mostly devoted to Claude trying to get the divided Alliance to rally behind him using what little resources he already has before taking on the Empire. I do agree that he doesn't have much of a character arc. But, for me at least, that's not much of a bad thing since a lot of his supports are about slowing getting to know more about Claude as a person rather than him changing over the course of the story.

    Also, all the other nobles with voting privileges in the Alliances are followers of the Church and only sided with the Empire at first to protect their land because they were afraid of it's military strength, which is another reason why he didn't try to join up with the Empire. None of them actually wanted to support Edelgard, which makes sense given her goals and the kind of stuff nobles like Lorenz's dad have done. After the Golden Deer take the Bridge connecting Alliance and Imperial territory, all of them immediately start backing the Church and, since Claude is best buds with the current leader of said Church, backing him.

    It is definitely true that any conflict due to Claude trying to change the status quo after the war is over does get skipped over, though. You could argue that he got enough clout because of his actions during the war and relationship with Byleth to change things without much hassle, but that's just my guess and not backed by anything in the actual game.

  15. #9295

    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    I really hated how Crimson Flower turned out.

    Spoiler:
    That truce between Edelgard and the Agarthans ruined the whole route for me. "Yo teacher, my uncle here kinda killed your dad, but be chill with him for now. We deal with them offscreen."

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    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    Quote Originally Posted by No swords style best style View Post
    I disagree with this part. Yes, Claude may not have had personal ties to Edelgard or the Agarthans prior to the start of the game, but their actions get in the way of his own dreams and what he wants to achieve in Fodlan. Not siding with Edelgard even though he has almost the same goals as her (and their battle dialogue even points that out) is probably a byproduct of his route and the Church route being made as almost exact copies of one another, but story-wise, because of her role in part one, I think it's understandable why he doesn't trust her. Plus, since he's connected to Byleth, the temporary leader of the Church post-timeskip, he can make use of their military power for himself and reforming things from the inside is a better option than working with Edelgard if she really was the one behind everything pre-timeskip. (We as the player know the whole truth, but Claude doesn't.).
    Bolded comment hits the nail right on the head. The story overall doesn't need Claude to function, and Claude himself hardly influences it. Any guess as to why Claude doesn't ally with the empire is conjecture and I don't think there's a lot to support any interpretation.

    Claude doesn't have any specific commitments to the Alliance and cares more about seeing his ideals realized. He gives them up to Dimitri in AM (which is really weird, especially considering the Alliance formed to have independence from the Kingdom), and when he's spared in CF, he kinda just fucks off and doesn't get the chance to engage with Edelgard's ideals. In either route, he should stick around and use his influence to make sure his visions can come to life under the new rule, but he doesn't. The plot really doesn't know what to do with him because he just isn't important outside VW. Even in VW, his importance is becoming a tool of the Empire to flush out the Agarthans.

    Quote Originally Posted by No swords style best style View Post
    Claude is hiding the fact that he's an outsider, tho. He'd never be accepted as Head of House Reagan if the other Alliance lords knew where he was from. His first support with Lorenz is all about how he seemingly popped up out of nowhere with his Crest. The first half of Golden Wind is mostly devoted to Claude trying to get the divided Alliance to rally behind him using what little resources he already has before taking on the Empire. I do agree that he doesn't have much of a character arc. But, for me at least, that's not much of a bad thing since a lot of his supports are about slowing getting to know more about Claude as a person rather than him changing over the course of the story.

    Also, all the other nobles with voting privileges in the Alliances are followers of the Church and only sided with the Empire at first to protect their land because they were afraid of it's military strength, which is another reason why he didn't try to join up with the Empire. None of them actually wanted to support Edelgard, which makes sense given her goals and the kind of stuff nobles like Lorenz's dad have done. After the Golden Deer take the Bridge connecting Alliance and Imperial territory, all of them immediately start backing the Church and, since Claude is best buds with the current leader of said Church, backing him.

    It is definitely true that any conflict due to Claude trying to change the status quo after the war is over does get skipped over, though. You could argue that he got enough clout because of his actions during the war and relationship with Byleth to change things without much hassle, but that's just my guess and not backed by anything in the actual game.
    I don't doubt that he has these struggles, but the game never explores them. He unites the Alliance off-screen in every route (in VW, you only deal with one holdout and they're only holding out for Edelgard-related reasons, not Claude-related reasons).

    My misgivings with his character aren't whether or not he has an arc, but rather that he has one off-screen, because none of it is important to the main story. I still like him as a person, and those things you mentioned are there and give him some amount of intrigue and depth, but because it's all so out of focus and the game struggles to justify his existence in the story, he never lives up to his potential and that leaves him at a B in my book.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    I really hated how Crimson Flower turned out.

    Spoiler:
    That truce between Edelgard and the Agarthans ruined the whole route for me. "Yo teacher, my uncle here kinda killed your dad, but be chill with him for now. We deal with them offscreen."
    Apparently Edelgard was designed fro the beginning to be the villain, and I think they ran into issues when they tried to humanize Edelgard on CF. Because they do a really good job and the scenario where she wins is arguably the best for Fodlan out of all the routes. But since she's the villain, she still needs to be tied to the Agarthans and the justification is somewhat flimsy.

    On the other hand, Edelgard still hates the Agarthans, and her cooperation with them is what lets them be exposed and defeated in every route but AM (where they get away), so I think the plot puts her ultimately in the right (even if it cooperating with them at all is morally dark grey).

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  17. #9297

    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    Did not know there was a hearty discussion going on lol. Wagomu and I have been chatting about the game on the side.

    I'm too lazy to upload my tier of characters atm but Seteth is my favorite of the game, hands down.

  18. #9298

    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    Quote Originally Posted by MetaMario View Post
    Did not know there was a hearty discussion going on lol. Wagomu and I have been chatting about the game on the side.

    I'm too lazy to upload my tier of characters atm but Seteth is my favorite of the game, hands down.
    I'm surprised, I figured it would be Anna, given she can be a unit in this game.

  19. #9299

    Default Re: General Fire Emblem Thread - Oh No! I'm Late for the Brigand Exam!

    Quote Originally Posted by Noqanky View Post
    I'm surprised, I figured it would be Anna, given she can be a unit in this game.
    Unforunately-

    Anna suffers greatly from having no supports unlike the rest of the cast, not even a Byleth support. I always like her as a mascot kinda deal but she doesn't hold a candle to the other characters. Unit wise she's probably the weakest version of Anna ever playable - i like her boons but again, can't support or even do tea time with Byleth, has the facility flag so you can't even make her a dancer (which is a good way to boost your weakest unit). It's a bit disappointing.

    Although right now I am doing a maddening run and I have plans to use her in spite of it all.

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