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Thread: Thundercats (Roar)

  1. #841
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cartoon Network

    I have yet to see any justification for why the designs are bad, just a sweeping declaration that they are. Which is in pretty stark contrast to Wagomus breakdown of their intent and merits.

  2. #842

    Default Re: Cartoon Network

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    I have yet to see any justification for why the designs are bad, just a sweeping declaration that they are. Which is in pretty stark contrast to Wagomus breakdown of their intent and merits.
    Because its hard to put to words. They look ugly, off-putting, and dumb. You LOOK at it and go "that's terrible." The same way the human version of My Little Pony looks bad. Choices in overall anatomy and face shape just look offputting. They make these random faces where you see their lips pouting and its weird. The shape of the noses and the thicknes of the eyebrows is weird. The haircuts look like ill defined blobs. The anatomy of the characters doesn't look like its being exaggerated for comedy, it just looks like the artist doesn't understand anatomy. It's a hundred little hard to describe things that come together in one package and its just the actual designs that just don't work for me.

    Not even saying they have to be six heads tall athletic hero proportions. Something with slightly different models but similar approach would be fine


    That's just as cartoony and squashed and allowing for what the show is going for, but it looks better.

    Or a little bit *more* and it could just look outright good.


    Or in slightly different direction


    Gumball has very similar face shapes and a similar eye size proportion, but it doesn't look... off. Even though the heads are vastly disproportionate to the bodies it looks okay.



    Those are tiny and not properly proportioned, but they look good. Heck, even for all the hate Teen Titans Go gets, at least their designs are clean and not offputting to look at.

    I'd dislike the exact same artstyle on ANY project, not just Thundercats. It just... looks ugly.
    Last edited by Robby; January 12th, 2020 at 02:30 AM.
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  3. #843

    Default Re: Cartoon Network

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    The hell!?
    That's not really true anymore. There are several active shows that have also been airing for the same length of time that ATHF did. It had eleven seasons over fifteen years; Robot Chicken has about a third again as many episodes over the same amount of time with less seasons while Squidbillies has more seasons but a few dozen less episodes than Aqua Teens. Venture Brothers has about two thirds as many episodes in just over half as many seasons and might catch up to it with Season Ten in about thirty years.

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    Also, Thundercats Roar just seems relentlessly generic to me; I don't like the character designs and the writing but it's not the train full of TNT careening into a toxic waste storage facility that the new PPG show is either. It really feels like a show that'll be forgotten soon enough since even Cartoon Network doesn't seem much interested in it.
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  4. #844
    Voici La Chévre Wagomu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Snip
    That all still comes down to opinion? Honestly, I like the Roar designs better than those alternate Thundercats. Certainly the Roar designs are a better fit for the chaotic gremlin energy the show is going for. Plus they have more specific details, which isn't to say they can't be well-animated, it just wouldn't look nearly as good with the types of motions the show puts them through. From little things like the mutants' faces scrunching up with the movement of their ship in the beginning of the first episode, to Cheetara's exaggerated stance as she lands after dealing a blow to Mumm Ra and her reaction to his counterattack (btw the Cheetara design in Roar is by far my favorite-looking version of her). They're made to squash and stretch and inflate and distort well, which lends itself to the show's cartoony brand of action comedy. Maybe with those alternate designs you could build a good-looking show, but it wouldn't be the same show. The Roar designs belong in Roar.

    Love em or hate em, they are designed with intention and style, which is the most important thing. To speak to your MLP example, Friendship is Magic looks good because the characters were designed with a specific look in mind. Simplifying the pony designs from the previous shows, exaggerating their color differences, giving them well-differentiated manes and expressive faces in proportion with their bodies helped make very recognizable and distinct designs that people could latch onto. Equestria Girls looks a lot worse because they just took FIM's design philosophy and thoughtlessly transposed it onto human shapes. The color palettes, faces and hair look a lot weirder on the human shape, and things like the color-matched outlines, or giving everyone the same proportions look a lot worse on the higher-detailed character models.

    And stuff like Gumball and Samurai Pizza Cats are made for different shows with different worlds, tones, and direction. They aren't directly comparable.
    Last edited by Wagomu; January 12th, 2020 at 09:32 AM.

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  5. #845
    A dog exists somewhere David Ludwig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cartoon Network

    I'm just sayin if Uncle Grandpa had the greatest animation of all time I would still think it looked like horrific butt. And I mean I know this is opinion lol, y'all don't need to tack "by the way guys this is just your opinion" onto every post. I see where yer comin from. I just disagree is all. No biggie, just to be clear.



  6. #846

    Default Re: Cartoon Network

    As Wag said, it's all subjective. I mean, I'm sure there's someone who thinks these designs are appealing.

    Spoiler:

  7. #847

    Default Re: Cartoon Network

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    That all still comes down to opinion?
    I think it looks bad and that no amount of animation quality can make up for the designs and the approached they're taking.
    You think it looks amazing and that the designs are great because of the animation quality and the approach they're taking.

    Yes, of course it comes down to opinion. And we're coming at this from completely opposite perspectives.

    Agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Robby; January 12th, 2020 at 12:06 PM.
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  8. #848
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cartoon Network

    I actually wrote a long post about how I felt about the designs yesterday and deleted them, specifically in response to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    People keep saying this aaaaaand... what show does it look like exactly? I mean there's inspirations here and there, like the facial expressions being reminiscent of Flapjack, or some art design looking OK K.O.-inspired, but there really isn't another show that looks quite like it. That's nothing compared to the old shows where the characters either looked like they were based on the same toy molds everyone else used in the 80s or looked like an anime-inspired take based on the designs based on the same toy molds everyone used in the 80s (admittedly, 2011 Panthar, Snarf and Mumm Ra aren't bad, but the rest are kinda generic).
    The character designs are like a concentration of what some people call the "calarts style" and I just call the popular trend in animation of today. There's nothing new about shows and artists sharing an overall animation style. As has been mentioned, anime do it a lot and the old Hanna Barbara cartoons almost seemed like they came from a factory, but this is the first show with this specific style that seems to lack some charm about it that makes it unique compared to its peers. The peers I have in mind are Gumball, Clarence, Steven Universe, Gravity Falls, Star vs., etc.

    I like the art in most of those shows, because there's something that separates them and makes them unique, but Thundercats Roar looks to me like if someone plugged Thundercats Go into a template. The thick eyebrows, round eyes, bean shaped head and the smile are all there. The proportions are all the same, the thin lines are the same, the chibi-like body proportions. All of the hallmarks of the style are there, as they are in most of the shows above, but there's nothing that makes it stand out, like Steven Universes video-game inspired settings, Clarences pure nostalgic comfiness, or Gumball's multiple art methods and styles interestingly packed into one show.

    I don't think it looks bad by any means, but when i first saw it, its adherence to the style was the first thing I noticed. I guess in summation it just doesn't stand out to me, and it stands out so little that it kind of stands out for not standing out.
    Last edited by andre; January 12th, 2020 at 01:07 PM.

  9. #849
    They put em in Smash Bros! Conekiller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cartoon Network

    Reposted from another board:
    It was largely....there. putting aside the ugly art style, I found the use of the original music very distracting. The ending credits was genuinely charming.

    However it wasn't all that funny, but I did chuckle a few times, mostly the Berbils and MummRa sitting on the Cats Lair like a throne.

    I was honestly surprised the lightning gag continued beyond the initial joke and even went on to be plot relevant.

    The voice cast was largely fine, Panthro being the stand out. Cheetara sounded really familiar but I didn't bother to look up IMDB.

    Thu Thundercats themselves had this weird...detatched feeling. Like they were just going throught the motions. There seemed like this fixation on who was the best/coolest, not sure if thatll come back later or its just a first episode weirdness. LionO asking various things about the Mutants felt like it was trying to spoof that "Unhand her, Dan Backslide" thing that was a meme a few years back.

    On a personal note, I did appreciate that Tygra is further elaborated to be a useless lump. When all the Thundercats are showing off their skills amd abilities, all he does is cheer on and become a distraction for the lightning do LionO can get closer. He was my least favorite character as a kid and I'm glad hes basically taken Snarf's role as the nagging "adult".

    Ok. Saying "Thunder" a bunch of times to make the sword stupid huge did also make me laugh a bit.

    Largely, I wasn't entertained, but it wasn't the hyperactive assault of stupidity I was afraid it would be. It was just Spongebob level stupidity. (Note: I have no love or nostalgia for Spongebob, this is not meant as a compliment to either). It had a tiny handful of things I did like, but not enough to make me want to keep watching. If I happen to see it live on tv I may stick around just to see if it moves away from spoofing the very specific episodes lf the G1 show.
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  10. #850
    Voici La Chévre Wagomu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    Snip
    The whole 'similar style' argument is one that needs to be put to rest in general. Not that that's what you're arguing here, but my annoyance at all the "calarts style" trolls is part of why I've been going to bat for it.

    The charm of the Roar art to me is that it has this nice gross Ed Roth-kinda inspired edge to it and some of the loose creative freedom in boarding and design that made me love OK K.O. They all have this cute idiot and trash goblin energy to them that sets them apart from their contemporaries. There are clear contemporary influences, sure, but you can't really mistake Roar characters for any others out there, either. The comparison people make to TTG is more of a genre one, since they both are light on action, high on comedy reboots of previously dramatic action shows, so of course there's going to be some similarities in design philosophy, but that's an issue more with premise than about the execution of the premise.

    I didn't watch Thundercats 2011, and I don't doubt that the switch from a show with respectable action and drama to hyperactive comedy is a jarring one. Like I said before, the writing/humor hasn't really done much for me (besides a couple of good gags here and there), either, but it still has a lot of respectable qualities that separate it from being the nostalgia cash-in people have tried to label it as. Watching the show, it does look like a lot of heart was put into it, and that's something worth appreciating.

    That's what I've been getting at with trying to separate opinion from reality. All that good work put into the show has been buried under a wave of bad rhetoric.

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  11. #851
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cartoon Network

    Quote Originally Posted by Wagomu View Post
    The whole 'similar style' argument is one that needs to be put to rest in general. Not that that's what you're arguing here, but my annoyance at all the "calarts style" trolls is part of why I've been going to bat for it.

    The charm of the Roar art to me is that it has this nice gross Ed Roth-kinda inspired edge to it and some of the loose creative freedom in boarding and design that made me love OK K.O. They all have this cute idiot and trash goblin energy to them that sets them apart from their contemporaries. There are clear contemporary influences, sure, but you can't really mistake Roar characters for any others out there, either. The comparison people make to TTG is more of a genre one, since they both are light on action, high on comedy reboots of previously dramatic action shows, so of course there's going to be some similarities in design philosophy, but that's an issue more with premise than about the execution of the premise.

    I didn't watch Thundercats 2011, and I don't doubt that the switch from a show with respectable action and drama to hyperactive comedy is a jarring one. Like I said before, the writing/humor hasn't really done much for me (besides a couple of good gags here and there), either, but it still has a lot of respectable qualities that separate it from being the nostalgia cash-in people have tried to label it as. Watching the show, it does look like a lot of heart was put into it, and that's something worth appreciating.


    That's what I've been getting at with trying to separate opinion from reality. All that good work put into the show has been buried under a wave of bad rhetoric.
    I think the reason Roar is such a big target is because it is so clearly artistically a part of the current trend while also being a beloved IP. I also think, like with TTG (which I have mostly enjoyed when I watched), the reaction is mostly overblown by people who wouldn't watch it even if it did adhere to its original artistic style. TTG angered people because I think a lot of fans craved a sequel series, still do, and the sting of Young Justice was so fresh. I wager most of the people complaining about Roar didn't watch the 2011 series, so I don't really care, but I can understand why they'd be thrown off by the style. (even if it is a labor of love and passion) At the end of the day, what really matters is whether kids end up enjoying it and watching it, which lots of millenials and gen x people tend to forget in their outrage.

    edit: Also I want to point out that somehow TMNT has had 4 animated series and at least the first three are largely beloved. I know it's Nick, but is the newest one any good?
    Last edited by andre; January 12th, 2020 at 02:28 PM.

  12. #852
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thundercats hoooooooo!

    I just watched the trailer for Thundercats Roar, and . . . . hoooolleeee shit this is bad.



    Even if you take into consideration how silly the first show was (being 80s glam and all) . . . . it wasn't this stupid.

  13. #853
    MALKIOR THE DESTROYER KaizokuJinbei's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thundercats hoooooooo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    I just watched the trailer for Thundercats Roar, and . . . . hoooolleeee shit this is bad.



    Even if you take into consideration how silly the first show was (being 80s glam and all) . . . . it wasn't this stupid.
    Not going to lie I thought that was OK.KO
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  14. #854

    Default Re: Thundercats hoooooooo!

    Just looking at the still image hurts my soul. I want it to fail so they don't do this shit again.

  15. #855

    Default Re: Thundercats hoooooooo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone_Baroness View Post
    Just looking at the still image hurts my soul. I want it to fail so they don't do this shit again.
    Media will still do it, it’s easier to ca$h on nostalgia than creativity. Look at you too Mickey.





  16. #856

    Default Re: Thundercats hoooooooo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    I just watched the trailer for Thundercats Roar, and . . . . hoooolleeee shit this is bad.



    Even if you take into consideration how silly the first show was (being 80s glam and all) . . . . it wasn't this stupid.
    We talked about this at some length in the Cartoon Network thread already. (I'd forgotten we even had a Thundercats thread... I'll merge those over here)

    I absolutely hated it. Wagomu loved it.

    http://www.apforums.net/showthread.p...=1#post4025600
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  17. #857

    Default Re: Thundercats hoooooooo!

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    I just watched the trailer for Thundercats Roar, and . . . . hoooolleeee shit this is bad.



    Even if you take into consideration how silly the first show was (being 80s glam and all) . . . . it wasn't this stupid.
    I was never that into the original Thundercats but even I'm offended by how much that person obviously hates the source material.

  18. #858

    Default Re: Thundercats hoooooooo!

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    I was never that into the original Thundercats but even I'm offended by how much that person obviously hates the source material.
    No, they actually apparently really love it. There's lots of injokes and nods, and things like using the original music, that only a hardcore fan would make.

    The problem is their specific "loving" approach is not the same approach most fans of either previous series wanted, much like TTG wasn't the followup anyone asked for... even if it has turned out to be a success for its target audience.
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  19. #859
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thundercats hooooooooly shit it's bad.

    You can make the animation look silly and make it a funny love letter to the original, but dear god the writing and the "jokes" just do not work. I could overlook the stupid art style if it had better writing and a little more emotional maturity, but it doesn't. The animation is actually pretty fluid, but at this point animation quality isn't the problem. It feels more like a Youtube satire than an actual series.

  20. #860
    Voici La Chévre Wagomu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Thundercats hooooooooly shit it's pretty good.

    The first six eps are out on the CN app. The writing is sometimes a little too juvenile, especially on Lion-o, but most of the eps leave me laughing on the balance. Tygra's the best so far as the out of touch and kinda lame team dad, he's adorable. The biggest strength of this show still is the animation, though. Like look at this thing in motion:

    https://twitter.com/amphajack/status...75235099516936

    God it's so kinetic and expressive and unironically has the best action of any Thundercats series by whole buncha miles. The action cuts are so consistently good from episode to episode that it's a wonder how they can get away with it. The answer in part, like I've said before, is the simplified designs that they can just go wild with. The fantastic boarding, animation and directing talent cannot be overlooked, though. It's apparent that the team gives a lot of freedom to its members, allowing them to pull whatever wild ideas come to mind.

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